Hepatitis Forums
Hepatitis C Main Forums => Living with Hepatitis C => Topic started by: BubbaT on April 14, 2015, 11:54:34 pm
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Hi Troops and Troopettes,
I wanted to start a thread about Eating to Heal your Liver!
I recently started some new healthy habits and I am experiencing better health and I wanted to hear your stories about how you have been eating certain foods and drinking certain drinks that help you improve your overall health ...
On short list for me is I'm juicing lemons in my glass of water 12oz-16oz in the morning and through out the day maybe 4 times a day...using real stevia, not the fake stuff..
Also I'm eating a banana and orange for brkfst... Or oatmeal..
salad for lunch, no dressing... No bread... Add lean chicken grilled
Salmon or tomato, garlic soup for dinner, I love this soup....low salt of course
With salad... Avocado, grind up the pit, it's great for you...
Yogurt for dessert... The active culture kind low sugar, with fruit..
So far I have lost 10 lbs while taking Harvoni,
Chime in with helpful tips or suggestions...
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Thanks for starting this thread! That all sounds great. It had never occurred to me to eat the avocado pit. How do you grind it up? I think it would kill my blender in short order if I were to toss a whole pit in on a daily basis. (I often eat an avocado a day.)
I try to eat turmeric daily - usually in a brown rice and lentil pilaf - for its anti-inflammatory effects. I also put a Tbsp of freshly ground flax seeds in my smoothie each morning. Kale and carrot go in there too + banana, yogurt, organic unsweetened fruit juice.
Kim
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Hi Kim ,
My GI dr tells me he uses turmeric he gets from India, he said he gets the good stuff, whatever that means! Lol
I used a cheese grader or a rasp grader to file the avocado pit and it works like grading hard cheese... But it works well enough ...
I read where garlic, avacoados, turmeric were the 3 best things you could eat for your liver, the Allicin in the garlic works well sliced or crushed before using to release the compound and get the best effect...
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I hope more people post to this thread and I really need help with coming up with healthy "easy" menu ideas
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Thanks for the cheese grater idea for pulverizing an avocado pit, BubbaT. That's a great idea. I'm going to try it.
I can certainly believe that garlic, avocados and turmeric are 3 best things for liver.
Also artichoke. http://www.liversupport.com/artichokes-help-an-ailing-liver/
Once when I was very sick from hepatitis-related nausea and could not eat for days (this was before I was diagnosed or knew anything about hepatitis), the only food I craved as soon as I recovered enough to eat was an artichoke. At the time I thought how weird.
Now I buy canned artichoke hearts (not marinated - just artichoke hearts in water+citric acid) and make a pasta sauce with them regularly. About to go eat some now! :) I buy fresh artichokes when I can find them.
Kim
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Hi BubbaT
Where do you buy the real Stevia?
We made some fresh lemon juice yesterday but all I have at home is sugar:(
Can I buy it at a market or do I have to go online?
Thanks
Deb
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Hi Kim, debula
Kim, that is a good link on artichokes, I didn't know they were from the milk thistle family, wow. My wife's parents loved those things, I never ate them being from the south, we had okra not Artie chokers! Lol
Debula, when looking for real stevia, you will have to look hard in your local stores, or health food stores, because many of the brands are not real stevia, look at the indegridents closely,
It should say real stevia extract, it is not cheap, but it is the best for anyone diabetics included, it is from a plant, the leaves of a stevia plant are what make up the crystalline powder.. How are you feeling?
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Just taking my first pills. I am writing this for anyone else out there who might have a similar situation as mine, and for advice especially concerning liver care.
I am on day 6 of Harvoni. I am also on day 6 of alcohol abstinence. I do not feel any side effects from the Harvoni, but boy would I like to have a beer. I am 1b, probably first infected in the late 60s in Haight Ashbury, San Francisco where I tried every drug and every method of taking the drug that came across my path. I quit heroin and all drugs in 1971 because they got in the way of my doing the things I wanted to do -- except that I then discovered beer. Beer was legal and satisfied my addictive personality (I smoke Camel non-filters). I did not ever drink to get drunk or high. I suppose I was on a mellow maintenance program of my own device. No DUIs, no alcohol related job, marital, family, social problems -- so I figured all was well and good. I have consumed 4-8 beers a day (and some fine wine here and there) for 40 some years because I just felt like it and had no reason not to.
Now I find out I am stage 3-4 cirrhosis through lab testing and biopsy. ALT 50 to 65 and AST 60-to 85. Viral load 4.7 million. Are those number very high or what? I dunno. I do not know that I have ever had Hep C symptoms. Is my cirrhosis from drinking beer or does Hep C cause it alone -- or is it the combination? Perhaps I have not considered that I have had liver problems, thinking that a 66 year old guy who has been physically active in construction and farming for over 4 decades ought to be having tiredness, soreness, joint pain and other issues. I am fit and trim with a great BMI, but pre-hypertension.
I have been an organic fresh market vegetable grower for 20 years now and have a happy business. I have studiously avoided crappy food and food additives and chemicals all my life (well, except for the smoking). Not drinking good craft beers and nice wines is something I will miss - more out of habit, ritual, and taste issues than anything else, but the cirrhosis and Hep C is depressing me.
By the way, I am on Medicare with a supplemental policy through Humana and my cost for the Harvoni is zero. Low income, I guess. I have read many posts on this site and I thank you all for the sharing, and wish us all a good remaining life.
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Hey Michael J,
Glad to hear you're getting treatment! It's been a ride for all of us, some a little longer than others, I see you were an organic farmer, those good veggies kept you alive! I have been on a healthy binge and I'm liking it just fine...
I need to lose weight and now I have the impetus to do it, to live longer so I'm going for it, the Harvoni is killing this virus and the nutritious food is making me stronger,
So my emotional and mental side is. Doing much better.
As to your question about hepc and alcohol, it's like putting gas on a fire I have heard some say, even severe damage can occur with people who drink and use Tylenol,
So you are better off with out it, good luck on treatment!
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Thanks for the reply Bubba T. I am still a very active farmer (and will be until they tote me off to the compost pile), so I was worried about starting Harvoni at the beginning of a new season. I am working my farm 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Being functionally compromised by the side effects would make my tasks undoable. But thankfully, so far I do not notice any side effects, and the successes and attitudes of people on this forum plus the financial availability of this drug give me a more positive outlook on life, and give me the resolve to part ways amicably with my old fellow travelers in the bottles.
I see you post often. I appreciate your efforts and boosterism. I have always encouraged people to consider the foods they eat, and I am glad you are on the binge of eating well. Don't pass up the farmers markets. Most of us do what we do out of principal and idealism rather than for the money. Hah! My paltry income is probably what got me my prescription for free.
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Hi Micael J
I am glad you are getting treatment. We started almost on the same day. This is my 5th day :)
I quit drinking 20 years ago and still have cirrhosis from the Hep C
The hep C can cause it but like Bubba said the beer just adds fuel to the fire
I also really didnt' have symptoms. I thought it was my thyroid or stress and my long commute to and from work that caused me to feel so tired all the time.
How long will you be on Harvoni?
Good luck and be well.
Bubba thanks for the Stevia info. Better take the reading glasses along when I go looking ;)
I am feeling pretty good. No real side effects so far. Last night I couldn't fall asleep so I am changing my dose time to morning.
Other than that a dull headache that comes and goes.
Still trying to work on eating healthier. I need more fruits and veggies in my life
How are you doing?
Stay well :)
-Deb
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Hello deb, Michael J.
Deb, how is treatment going? Are you getting any sides yet? Any fever or chills?
In my first week I got an episode of fever and chills and vomited one time, but it was gone in about 24 hours, which is not a normal cold or flu event.
I'm not taking any other meds, no aspirin or Tylenol .
Hey Michael I'm amazed that you can still works 12 hrs at your condition, but I guess your a tuff bird! Which is good, I have been fighting this virus prolly for 35 yrs and had no prior treatment, hepc takes a long time to damage your liver if your not adding to the damage thru drugs and alcohol, I have a cousin is 57, he died of cirrhosis in January, I know he drank a lot, didn't know if he had hepc or not. But he never told me how sick he was, he went to the dr. They told him he had a week to live.
The problem many people face having hepc is they live their life not knowing their lifestyle is shortening their life. I have took milk thistle for 25 yrs with a host of other supplements, waiting for an effective drug like Harvoni .
Starting week 8, got my last bottle this morning, I'm waiting for the 4 wk VL report.
This labcorp I'm using has goofed on 2 of my labs, either not doing the one asked for or doing the wrong one! Go figure!
The sun is shining, I'm feeling much better,
Thank you Jesus!
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Interesting link on Sugar and how the Liver metabolizes it!
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/brainwaves/2013/07/15/is-sugar-really-toxic-sifting-through-the-evidence
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I have read Lustig's book, "Fat Chance". One of his main points is that the sugars in whole fruits are not as damaging as the sugars in soft drinks, confections, etc. because the fiber of the fruit moderates the impact of the substance, giving our livers the time to process sugars with less damaging impact as the digestive system has to "disassemble" the fruit to release the sugars.
We have all heard it before -- Fiber! It is good to consume fiber and not concentrated hits of whatever. And we all know that oatmeal is better for you than Cheerios, that an apple is better than apple juice, that a baked potato is better than a French fry, etc. The MDs don't tell us much about this. They order tests and prescribe medicines - which all well and good, I don't expect my doctors to really know much more about nutrition and health than I can find out myself. They have not been trained as nutritionists.
I recommend the book for those who believe that our health and illnesses are strongly influenced by what we shove down our throats. Primarily, I turn to common sense, and to researchers like Lustig (who seems to me to be not like many hucksters selling supplements). Always being aware, however, that researchers who write books like his want to sell those books. A healthy dose of skepticism is in order along with being honest with yourself and eating like your grandma or great grandma told you. Thanks, BubbaT
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Hi everybody,
I wanted to pass along something I started recently and I am seeing a definite improvement in my glucose tolerance, and insulin resistance...
I started using real Stevia Extract, made from the stevia leaves plant!
This stuff has no sucralose, erythritol, methanol, aspartame, maltodextrin, dextrose, no additives, non GMO, allergen free, gluten free....
In the stores here it is named sweet leaf...
I was a sweet tea drinker for a long time and I would experience the sugar lows soon after having 2 glasses of sweet tea with meals, and it took a while for me to figure out what was happening, with liver disease from hepc, I was having a hard time with my diet because my blood glucose would spike then drop and I would feel like I was going to pass out....only after getting some protein would it normal out....
So now I found something that works and does not make my condition worse, and
I have lost 12 lbs recently, thought I would share this in case it could help some of you....
http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/news/the_not-so-swee/. Helpful link
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Hi Bubba
How do you know about your glucose and insulin issues? Haven't been tested specifically but I do know my glucose seems to be low all the time and fasting is very low like 65 maybe mychart seems to be down now so I can't get to the results
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“Sugar can play a role in inflammatory diseases. Poor regulation of glucose and insulin is a breeding ground for inflammation.”
The culprit isn't so much sugar - as it is highly refined carbs i.e., flour, rice, starchy foods, breads, pasta and so forth.
Carbs are complex sugars that your body converts to glucose. Carbs can cause significant spikes in glucose levels which can stay elevated for hours while your system converts them to energy.
Sugars, on the other hand, will cause a rabid spike in glucose levels which dissipates rather quickly.
As a diabetic, it's not enough to limit sugar intake and it's more important to regulate overall carb intake.
It is also noted that most products today don't contain cane sugar; rather they contain high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). Research indicates that there are significant differences in how our bodies process cane sugar v. HFCS
Simply put, if you want to regulate glucose and insulin levels, you have to control your intake of refined carbs - not just sugar.
Best wishes, Mike
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Hi Bubba
How do you know about your glucose and insulin issues? Haven't been tested specifically but I do know my glucose seems to be low all the time and fasting is very low like 65 maybe mychart seems to be down now so I can't get to the results
Hi Lynn, Mike
I have been having sugar related issues for a couple years now and most of my lab work was coming back elevated high, and I was experiencing hypoglycemia, most frequently after meals where I drank sweet tea or had too much sugar, I was experiencing the drops mostly that would occur 2- 3 hours after meals and I would experience symptoms like feeling weak, lethargic, almost like fainting...
and I would run to get some protein, peanut butter or something quick to counter the drop in my blood sugar..
I found that if I ate apples I would not experience these sugar swings, and after I quit drinking the sweet tea And other high sugar foods I'm not having the same sugar lows that cause these symptoms...
I have become a student of refined carbs and I have learned that when I control my sugar and carb intake I can manage SO Much Better, the plus side is I'm losing weight without even trying...
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The highest recent blood sugar result I had recently was 99 after eating and having my blood tested within a 1/2 hour. I was trying to have a higher result as I haven't seen one above 100 in several years under any circumstances and I don't know why. As far as I know I feel fine.
The one I did intentionally fasting was 61 with normal fasting 65-99. How how have you tested?
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Great thread! Without a doubt moderating the way in which we consume refined carbohydrates is important for good liver health. The difficulties come when one forgets that food values of all sources of calories need to be taken into consideration.
That said the greatest difficulties come from developing the habits of portion control.
Here is what helps me the most; when I purchase a protein product I always use a food scale to portion it to either 6 oz or 8 oz single servings. This means that if it is a roast I can estimate quickly how many meals I will create with the meat if I roast it whole or divide it. Then the unused portion(s) are carefully divided into meal sized portions and either frozen for later use or properly stored for the next meal within 2-3 days. If we have a meal with multiple sources of meat protein then I reduce the portion sizes accordingly.
Most importantly I alternate down to 4 oz of protein for a meal up to a maximum of ten depending upon what vegetables are served. With Tex-mex cooking and Chinese I drop the meat down to 4 oz per serving and have things like, tofu, beans and cheese make up the difference. You also need to take things like sour cream and cheese into the consumption and portion equation. Get in the habit of stretching your meat with other sources of proteins rather that satisfying hunger by eating large quantities of fats and meats.
Being in the habit of meal planning is essential to healthy cooking and eating. It is far easier to moderate your food intake if you know how much you are actually consuming! And it is easier to not get caught up in the guilt trip cycle of binging which is excused as snacking. If you know how much you have consumed then a little hunger pang is not a terrible thing. Consuming too much refined foods causes Chinese Restaurant syndrome, you don't know how much you actually ate but suddenly you feel hungry 4 hours later because you just ate food in a large quantity that your digestive system processed far too quickly.
This is what has happened to us because of the fad and fast food industry and a loss of common sense when it comes to all things food!
For the sake of convenience we have lost essential skills. It is entirely possible to learn these skills and it is amazing what starts to happen once you are in the habit of ignoring processed foods and creating your own portions. It is actually faster and cheaper. Because along with the use of pre packaged foods come the necessity of running out and constantly buying things one meal at a time!
Unless you are rich you can't afford to stuff your freezer and pantry with pre packaged crap. On top of that portion control and a balanced diet is a daunting task with pre packaged food, I guess that is why there is an up and coming diet food industry that tries to sell you meal plans direct to your door.
And that is the problem with all the fad dieting that is touted in media, sure some of it can make sense but there is no substitute for learning effective portion control and meal planning.
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Actually, calories are less of a concern when restricting carb intake.
In fact, one only needs to look at the scientific research regarding low carb diets, and in particular, the Atkins diet to find conclusive proof of this.
Once the body enters semi or full ketosis (which occurs when restricting carb intake), calories are not a factor in weight gain or loss.
It is the carbs that are the factor. This is because carbs (complex sugars) are broken down to simple glucose, which is one source your body uses for energy.
Once the body converts carbs to glucose, and obtains the energy needed for daily functioning, the remaining glucose is then converted to fat, which is stored in the body (and even in the liver i.e., fatty liver syndrome).
When carbs are restricted, the body naturally moves to another energy source, which is fat. The body can utilize fat just as efficiently as carbs for an energy source.
Another benefit of this is that stored fats are burned, including the fat in the liver. It also mitigates fat intake by utilizing it for energy rather then storing it in the body and liver.
This is why low carb dieting does not restrict calories - including proteins and fats. It only restricts carbs, which can accelerate disease, cause body inflammation and a host of health concerns.
Best wishes, Mike
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Helpful comments,
Thanks mike and mugwumps, both of your comments are the HOLY GRAIL of Eating to live instead of Living to EAT...
How come is was so easy to eat good when I was a kid growing up in the 60s?
There was very little refined carbs available, most of our food came from the garden,
we did not have sugar available in the house to eat! Eureka !
@lynn, the 4 CMPs I have had recently glucose was approx 114, these were fasting labs.
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Thanks Bubba for this thread! Been searching for impact of our diet on liver tx. I'm confused about protein~do we need less or more for liver healing?
When I read your post about "real stevia extract" I thought you meant real, like the plant itself. I have used the leaves (a grower at farmers market sells bunches of it) tasty but awkward. Then I found the powder, can even use it in baking! Yay! A good sweet! Again, thanks. Look forward to more comments re appropriate foods for us in treatment.
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Thanks Bubba for this thread! Been searching for impact of our diet on liver tx. I'm confused about protein~do we need less or more for liver healing?
When I read your post about "real stevia extract" I thought you meant real, like the plant itself. I have used the leaves (a grower at farmers market sells bunches of it) tasty but awkward. Then I found the powder, can even use it in baking! Yay! A good sweet! Again, thanks. Look forward to more comments re appropriate foods for us in treatment.
The simple truth is if you do not exercise and your liver is compromised then you will accumulate fatty tissues first in your liver, then as excess tissue which will build up around the liver. This continues on and the excess fat accumulates around muscle groupings. During the 1980's the fad exercise industry convinced a whole generation that using their devices was the ticket to "burn fat" on the belly, the thighs. the arms and created a terrible craze for garbage machines that you see everywhere in yard sales.
In truth if you do exercise, even at moderate levels and do it every day and portion control your meals you will lose weight. As Mike has stated meats are fine provided you do not over consume.
If you are eating sensible portions try to drink a little water if hunger pangs happen instead of heading for the fridge or the Seven 11. Your wallet will thank you and so will your liver! Within a short period of time your liver will metabolize complex food stuffs better if the layer of fats around it have been reduced. The body naturally uses fat reserves and there is absolutely nothing wrong with fasting as long as you stay hydrated. Sensible fasting will enable you to learn to overcome hunger. I am not talking about binge fasting or fasting if you have a low BMI that is as bad as binge eating.
I am finding as my liver heals, (I have F4 cirrhosis) that I can now increase my exercise and work levels for the first time in at least 2 years! So we should be able to change our eating, exercise and fasting habits more effectively when cleared of HCV.
It does not matter if you go on an Atkins diet, or any other fad diet if you do not exercise, Eskimos eat nothing but meats and fats and if they do not exercise they get into trouble with getting overweight the same as anyone else. However down south here where it is much harder to go out and subsistence hunt for your dinner and it is easier to over consume we have the problem of not having to do enough physical work to get a meal.
Add to the equation the HCV and it becomes very difficult to exercise enough as the disease progresses. I had reached a point physically were it was difficult to walk 2 km without hitting the wall and losing muscle strength because of cirrhosis. I am certain that that wall is now back up to a level where I can take a brisk walk for at least 5 km then rest and keep going as my liver will be able to metabolize enough food to fuel me all day without even having to stop at a store to get a sugar fix!
Once you are free from HCV try dropping support for the oil industry and buy a back pack to do your shopping and put your car keys in a drawer. Meal plan and look forward to eating instead of being a pawn of the oil and fast food industries! Your liver will thank you.
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The issue with Eskimos and increases in obesity has nothing whatsoever to do with exercise or their traditional fat and protein diet. It has everything to do with the introduction of carbs - especially complex, refined carbs - it to their diet.
Thus:
"Even the groups we came to know as Eskimo—which include the Inupiat and the Yupiks of Alaska, the Canadian Inuit and Inuvialuit, Inuit Greenlanders, and the Siberian Yupiks—have probably seen more changes in their diet in a lifetime than their ancestors did over thousands of years. The closer people live to towns and the more access they have to stores and cash-paying jobs, the more likely they are to have westernized their eating. And with westernization, at least on the North American continent, comes processed foods and cheap carbohydrates—Crisco, Tang, soda, cookies, chips, pizza, fries. “The young and urbanized,” says Harriet Kuhnlein, director of the Centre for Indigenous Peoples’ Nutrition and Environment at McGill University in Montreal, “are increasingly into fast food.” So much so that type 2 diabetes, obesity, and other diseases of Western civilization are becoming causes for concern there too."
Moreover:
"Shaped by glacial temperatures, stark landscapes, and protracted winters, the traditional Eskimo diet had little in the way of plant food, no agricultural or dairy products, and was unusually low in carbohydrates. Mostly people subsisted on what they hunted and fished. Inland dwellers took advantage of caribou feeding on tundra mosses, lichens, and plants too tough for humans to stomach (though predigested vegetation in the animals’ paunches became dinner as well). Coastal people exploited the sea."
Mike
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Mike, I am not at all disagreeing with the fact that our over consumption of refined food products is the problem. All I am saying is obesity is directly related to over nourishment and lack of exercise. The quick fix of going for processed foods is the problem and the processed food industry is at the forefront of the problem. Where is the logic that processed meats, vegetables, legumes and grains cost less than raw product?
This is the troubling aspect of the situation. We have lost the skill to use raw product and the food industry certainly does not want to encourage the home cook to learn them! And as far as the teaching of nutrition goes our technical schools have become little more than havens for the teaching of how to get employment in the processed food industry not a place to learn the real facts about nutrition or the actual skills required to use raw farm products. Essentially they teach how to concentrate caloric content of foods not how to maintain nutritive value for volume. Or how to combine ingredients to balance meals.
These facts cut to the core of why obesity related liver disease is a plague that is becoming worse than cancer! It is a double curse for those who have HCV regardless of race.
Regards
Eric
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I totally agree. When I was in college my minor was in anthropology (specializing in North American Indigenous Peoples), and the impact of western diets on indigenous peoples of American was of interest to me.
Prior to the white man, sugar was not available and it's introduction started the downward health slide of North American Indians (not to mention the fact that we were shooting them on sight).
Once we rounded up the indigenous people, restricting them to a "reservation-based diet", health issue such as obesity and diabetes exploded. It's to the point that now, that upwards of 70% of Navajo and Hopi Indians have type II diabetes. The Eskimos are right behind them!
When I saw the word Eskimo in your post, it rekindled my interest and I posted a response to clarify a bit.
Best wishes, Mike
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I totally agree. When I was in college my minor was in anthropology (specializing in North American Indigenous Peoples), and the impact of western diets on indigenous peoples of American was of interest to me.
Prior to the white man, sugar was not available and it's introduction started the downward health slide of North American Indians (not to mention the fact that we were shooting them on sight).
Once we rounded up the indigenous people, restricting them to a "reservation-based diet", health issue such as obesity and diabetes exploded. It's to the point that now, that upwards of 70% of Navajo and Hopi Indians have type II diabetes. The Eskimos are right behind them!
When I saw the word Eskimo in your post, it rekindled my interest and I posted a response to clarify a bit.
Best wishes, Mike
Mike that is great to hear. I have been interested in the culture and food of our native peoples practically all my life. One fascinating feast that they revered was dog fish pit roast. The dog fish shark creates ammonia in tissues the same as members of the mackerel and tuna family. The trick is to bleed the catch quickly at sea and wrap it in the coldest bunch of sea weed that you can keep on board the boat.
What the natives did was fascinating. They built a traditional pit oven and covered the hot rocks with a layer of moist moss and skunk cabbage leaves. The fish was then stuffed with a small amount of rotten Douglas fir wood. The whole thing was then covered with moist moss and branches but was allowed to lightly smoke the fish naturally and slowly. The west coast Elders that I know have told me that the fish was so special done this way that it was considered the best possible meal for important guests. More so than west coast salmon.
Until the advent of our food culture, small pox, prejudice and thinly veiled social genocide, diseases like diabetes were practically unknown. The general consensus among them until the small pox epidemic practically eliminated their culture, was that in general white man was a smelly dirty and stupid race of people. I guess they were correct. ::)
Cheers
Eric
Oh and fyi the west coast dog fish is not a problem with mercury the way atlantic ocean ones are. I had references for this from the western marine institutes from studies done in the 1960 but I have forgotten who did the research :-\
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Mugwumps,
I catch small dog fish down here along the Texas coast, but I prefer flounder! ;D
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Fascinating info, Eric, about how the Native people pit-roasted dog fish.
BubbaT: Back to the avocado pit tip… do you peel the papery skin off the pit (after it dries) before grating the pit? I am finding that the most time-consuming fiddly part of using these things. But I am very much enjoying half a grated avocado pit in my daily smoothie. Thanks for the tip!
kim
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BubbaT,
Thanks for the lemon suggestion! :)
I started Harvoni today & am juicing lemons in some of my waters, without sweetener (which I prefer). It is a nice change from just plain water.
Blessings,
MG
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New to the forum, but not new to HCV - Dx 2008 - contracted probably in 60s. Was 50 lbs overweight, when diagnosed. Considered, then, pre-diabetic, but lost the 50 pounds between 2008 and 2014. Had elevated ast alt throughout that period, and in October 2014, they went sky high. When I look at the recommended DO and DON'T eat lists, I have been pretty much on a healthy diet. switched to vegetarian last year, and have started taking liver healthy supplements (NAC, R-Lapoic,).
Biggest problems I have are now finding what I want to eat. Sometimes don't want to eat. The shift over was primarily because eating animal protein made me feel less like eating. I try to eat mostly organic. For a while I was eating 4 to 5 smaller meals a day. I never eat a lot anyway. But started having pvcs - thought my metabolism was kicking up, but it was only associated with eating breakfast, so went to a cardiologist just to make sure - heart is in very good condition. GI doctor doesn't see anything from the hiatal hernia pov wrong, so nobody knows why. But when I dropped the extra 'snack' meals, the pvcs stopped.
MY main concern is finding recipes, that are easy to cook. I cook for two different 'diets.' My partner is meat and potatoes, (now just organic brown rice) so I cook a week's worth in the slow cooker. But for me, I don't feel like cooking.
I see so many different DO and DON'T eat things, and they are confusing. Some sources say its okay to eat animal protein, other say not - at least in excess. I think about things like acidic vs alkaline - an alkaline environment is supposed to be better. Weird that a citric fruit like lemons when put in water, create an alkaline environment.
All carbs I do eat are organic, whole wheat/grains. I am going to switch over from cow's milk to rice or almond, or soy milk. I drink bottled water, and cook with it also. I only have 4oz of fresh pressed apple juice a day, the rest is all water. eat fresh fruit with each meal. Oatmeal for breakfast - with cinnamon and a tsp pure maple syrup. Switched to lactaid, but will go over to the soy. Digestive problems are bloating, mostly.
Any suggestions on where to find recipes, on what to do or not to do, would be appreciated.
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Hi raduzhok and welcome to the forum.
I don't know much about the kind of diet you are asking about but hopefully others will come along with more information.
Best of luck to you
Lynn
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Thank you, Lynn. :)
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Hi Raduzhok, and welcome to the forums! It sounds like you are already eating a really good diet for supporting a liver with Hep C. I don't know of any recipes or cookbooks on the subject.
One good thing to eat when you don't feel like eating anything is a healthy smoothie. That will often go down easier than a solid meal, and you can pack it full of good things. I use all organic ingredients and combine any of the following (but not necessarily all in one smoothie!) : plain yogurt with active culture, 1 Tbsp ground flax seed, carrot, kale leaf, banana, any other fruit I have on hand. For liquid, I like organic fruit juice. But if you don't want too much fruit juice, almond milk works well. Organic unsweetened cranberry juice is extremely tart, very low sugar, and healthy in other ways.
Important to reduce or eliminate from diet: salt, added sugar, white flour, and pretty much any packaged or prepared foods or fast foods, since they are high in all of the above.
The only fats in my house for last 20 years are butter (unsalted and with active culture) and extra virgin olive oil.
I had been vegetarian for many years. But I found during my recent treatment (just ending today) that I had enormous craving for animal protein and animal fat. My body was speaking to me in a loud and decisive way, so I went with it. It wasn't a mistake.
Many of your issues will go away once you are treated and cured. There's no need to wait. The good drugs have arrived. :)
good luck!
kim
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Thank you, Kim for the welcome and all of the good information.
The smoothie idea sounds like a very doable thing. I just bought a blender to make smoothies. I add protein, for the liquid - but I'm looking for a protein drink that's organic... There's an organic section in our supermarket, so I spend a lot of time in there. I did start drinking water every morning with lemon, something I actually have done on and off for many years. I use spring water, but do want to get a water purifier - uncertain if the alkaline one is okay as there's some disagreement about whether it causes heavy metals to cling in the body.
I also switched over to organic cultured butter - was using butter all along, for years instead of margarines and spreads. I also usually use almond butter but not always at breakfast. I'm seeing an allergist to get tested for some other butters, since last year when I tried milk thistle, at the same time I had switched from almond to cashew (both organic) butter, but it had safflower oil, and I had an allergic reaction, so still need to check that out.
I haven't used salt in cooking - but I cook now for two of us, since I'm vegetarian and my partner isn't. I wonder about pasta sauce - since it's acidic. I make pasta for him, with meatballs, but I don't for myself, if I've made a casserole for myself - like zucchini with brown rice and cottage cheese. Right now it's too hot to put the oven on, so I have been eating the pasta (whole wheat linguini).
I pretty much have stopped buying any packaged foods, although I do get this organic, gluten free brown rice and bean burrito - it's packaged, and in the organic frozen cases... do you think that's okay?
It's funny, because the other day we were watching a show we watch with lunch, and they were having a hamburger and French fries, and I got such a craving, and finally we stopped by and I got a plain well done burger, and did eat a quarter of it, and gave the rest to my partner... I'd satisfied my craving.
Still, my biggest problem is what to make for myself. I've been eating organic veggie burgers during 'beef' week, also organic and packaged - I cook by the week. Salmon is no problem, though in summer it can be difficult to cook as I don't want to put the oven on - no a/c in the house. I use a slow cooker. Tried the salmon in it, but it was not terribly appetizing.
I appreciate your thoughts on all of this.
I'm in mid root canal, so treatment needs to wait at least for me to get through that. But I'm also hesitant until I see more info on EOT side effects, and EOT failures... I am taking supplements to take care of my liver until I feel confident about the Harvoni. I'm what I think is called 'naïve' in the HCV world, as I've never tried any traditional treatment. I'm taking baby steps right now.
Thank you again for your response!
Rad
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Hi Rad.
Re: the frozen brown rice&bean burrito - sounds very tasty. and probably fine. you might want to check how much salt is in it.
Re: the Harvoni - my feeling is there is no need to wait for more data. an enormous number of people have now completed Harvoni treatment and been cured, and with minimal or zero side effects or post-treatment problems. Reading these forums will give you the impression that there is a much higher percentage of people having problems with Harvoni during and after treatment. But that is because people having the most difficulty are the most likely to seek out the advice and support of a forum. I have enormous sympathy for anyone who is experiencing significant problems. And I believe every one of them. But bear in mind that is not the typical scenario for people taking Harvoni. So don't let the forums "scare you off" from starting treatment.
Unless you have some unusual circumstances in your case, your chances of being cured by 12 weeks of Harvoni are higher than 95%. Those are amazing odds, and no real downside. i just finished my 12 weeks of Harvoni and feel blessed that the universe handed me this miracle. in my case, because of my genotype, Harvoni was not available to me by prescription or health care coverage. But i got a seat in a clinical trial shortly after i started to look into this. i consider that a miracle from the universe.
best,
kim
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Hello again, Kim.
I checked the Burrito, and they are 18% of the daily; 430mg
Which means nothing else I eat during the day can go over 2%.
I'll look to see if they have a low sodium option. They have so many different kinds. I got the gluten free, and I can't remember some of the other things on the label.
And thank you for your encouragement about the harvoni. My greatest trepidation about the noted side effects is the anxiety. I have panic disorder, with agoraphobia, and I am not sure what I can do about anxiety which is brought on by a medication. I actually try not to take any meds, except for my bp and my anti-anxiety which I've been on for 25 years. Very low dose, which keeps me even.
I'll go and check to see what your experience was during the whole thing. It looks most people who post about it, do give that info.
The one other consideration is if my insurance will allow it or reject coverage.
Thank you again for your help!
Rad
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Hi again
Just wanted to add I had no sides to speak of from 24 weeks of Harvoni I did have anemia from the ribavirin which I took for 15 of those weeks (added it later)
Just got the news today I am still clear of hep c 12 weeks post treatment so I am cured.
Get tested, get treated, get cured, fight Hep c!
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Thank you Lynn for replying. That is very encouraging. I'm working toward that direction. I'm glad to hear you're doing well!!!
When you were taking the Harvoni, you said you were taking the ribavirin also. Was that before the Harvoni had not been released yet?
I am sure I'll be asking questions as I make this journey.
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Harvoni was approved October 19th 2014 I started treatment on Nov 17th.
Because I am a multiple time interferon based treatment null responder with cirrhosis and most importantly had relapsed in September 2014 which was 12 weeks after finishing a 12 week course with Sovaldi and Olysio I discussed with my doctor about adding Ribivirin to my treatment with Harvoni to throw everything available at the hep c.
For patients like myself there does seem to be an added benifit to add the Ribavirin. In fact per the AASDL treatment guidelines 24 weeks of Harvoni and Ribavirin is recommended for people who relapsed after Sovaldi Olysio who have cirrhosis.
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Just taking my first pills. . . .
I am on day 6 of Harvoni. I am also on day 6 of alcohol abstinence. . . .
Now I find out I am stage 3-4 cirrhosis through lab testing and biopsy. ALT 50 to 65 and AST 60-to 85. Viral load 4.7 million. Are those number very high or what? I dunno. I do not know that I have ever had Hep C symptoms. Is my cirrhosis from drinking beer or does Hep C cause it alone -- or is it the combination? Perhaps I have not considered that I have had liver problems, thinking that a 66 year old guy who has been physically active in construction and farming for over 4 decades ought to be having tiredness, soreness, joint pain and other issues. I am fit and trim with a great BMI, but pre-hypertension. . . .
By the way, I am on Medicare with a supplemental policy through Humana and my cost for the Harvoni is zero. Low income, I guess. I have read many posts on this site and I thank you all for the sharing, and wish us all a good remaining life.
Michael, your AST and ALT are a lot lower than mine were before I started Harvoni 39 days ago, but they are either at the high end of normal or already high enough to be abnormal, depending on the lab. (Your lab report should have a reference range that specifies the normal range.) Your viral load is quite high.
Hep C alone can cause cirrhosis (but as others note, drinking alcohol also harms the liver). For many years I've been on a medicine that rules out drinking alcohol, and I grew up in a "grape juice church," so I've been a teetotaler most of my life. In between, I imbibed only very rare token amounts of alcohol (a sip of champagne at a wedding, a sip of communion wine at an ecumenical service, that sort of thing--I just never developed a liking for the stuff). Yet over the nearly 44 years I've had Hep C, I've developed cirrhosis.
Your "tiredness, soreness, joint pain and other issues" might be extra hepatic manifestations caused by Hep C. You can find a list of them here: http://hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/Extrahepatic.pdf
Insurance-wise, you are very lucky! A lot of people on this forum have had, or are having, great difficulty getting a Harvoni prescription for a reasonable price, or even at all. Glad you are doing everything you can to help your liver. Best Wishes with your abstention and your treatment.
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Im and so glad to find others working with their diets.....I have been doing this for years and finally have a routine. Congrats to all who have completed treatment!
Have not started yet but trying. United healthcare denied, denied again and would not even respond to appeals! Filed a class action complaint today...... a lot of work, dr.s labs and Fibrosure, Fibroscan etc. I am hopeful that the class action suit may help others from having to go through everything I have gone through.... and get their medications as prescribed by their doctor!
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BubbaT- I have never heard of using the avocado pit either- I have to try this.
Raduzhok- The liver diet can be such a challenge at times- here is what I do
So here is what works for me:
No meat, no dairy, no gluten- ONLY Organic (everything).....Don't freak out....there are still things available to eat! Be cautious and do your research on "organic" labeled groceries and produce. This is a whole other topic-
I eat as many of these as I can in RAW fresh form in order to get the most out of them.
I eat beans, lentils, eggs and nuts for protein.
I eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies, cooked potato, kale, spinach, cabbage, squash, artichokes.
I eat a lot of salad cosseting of many lettuces, spinach etc.
I quit salt as much as possible.
Also quit tap water, only bottled water Nestle brand (after much bottled water research) and add lemon. No Alkaline water-too high in metals.
I consume n some way shape or form daily 1/2cup olive oil and about 1/2 cup coconut oil.
I snack on almonds or almond peanut butter and bananas.
They have almond yogurt now too, so I mix that with cereal add blueberries.
Organicville brand makes great salad dressings free of gluten low in salt, Nature's Path makes great cereals that fit into this diet also.
Almond milk comes in many brands now.
Odwalla Mango Protein drinks, and "green" Odwalla drinks.
Organic fresh Beet juice (which I hate), cherry and blueberry juice- fresh blueberries and cherries when in season.
I shop at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Sprouts mostly.
Thats about it- this is what I have narrowed it down to as far as my liver diet, and remember this is over many years of trial and error.
Supplements:
High potency B
Vit D
1000iu Vit E
NAC
SAM-E
A basic organic multi Vit
500 C
liquid Milk Thistle extract, liquid Dandelion root extract
I know that when I have not done this regimen in the past- or if I go off of it which I rarely do now- my symptoms and liver seem worse.
Good luck, try adding and removing things one at a time....
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Hi,
I'm from Portugal and my doctor said that coffee is very good for the liver. What is the opinion of the USA's doctors.
:D
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Doctors in Australia agree MCIR. I was told coffee was a good thing to drink. Not buckets of it,but a few cups a day. I only drink espresso, so i have one a day.
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MCIR, here is a link to an article that more than answers your question:
http://www.hepmag.com/articles/coffee_liver_2502_27155.shtml
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I don't have a special diet at all.
I eat a lot of cereal Cheerios with 2% milk. I have a lot of egg mc muffins and coffee for breakfast while driving. Dinner is from the work cafeteria might be a slice of pizza or a hamburger. Lately they have been having better meals like lasagna of choppino on occasion.
Tonight they are closed so getting a big mac for dinner probably