best study yet-cirrhosis reversal 53% after SVR, hep-c

[beto]

So all, check this out

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/839337_3

Study that focuses on cirrhosis reversal in Hep-C SVR patients.  53% achieved some reversal from cirrhosis or advanced fibrosis.  The criteria was a regression from F4 to F3 mostly. The anti virals were interferon based, however.  There are still no studies with those who have achieved SVR on the modern drugs, to my knowledge (not yet).  I have seen now about seven studies that favor the school of belief that it can be reversed.  A cool thing to come out of this study, is the fact that regression of fibrosis was also found in a percentage of subjects that did not achieve SVR.

Would be nice to hear from a cured Heppers that have better fibrosis numbers to report.  My doc has already told me that after SVR (if I make it) we will fibroscan every 6 months.  Anecdotal reports had been expressed to me when I got the scan that there were folks that were scanned after SVR and showed lower scores. 

There is much we do not know, however, I believe in focusing on possibility.  How many of you thought a cure for hep was possible 7 years ago?   

[pl1952]

Hi Beto,

Here are the numbers on my husband:

Hubby: 59 yrs.; GT1b; fibroscan 25-cirrhotic; S/O for 12 weeks started tx 3/20/14; SVR56; fibroscan done 7-7-15 = 8.5

Back before he treated in February 2014 his fibroscan score was 25.  His fibroscan score in July of this year is 8.5.  Although we do believe some regression has happened because he is SVR, I do think that if 5 different technicians performed the fibroscan on him, he would have five different numbers...

[pl1952]

Beto, I forgot there was a fibroscan done prior to that July 2015 reading and that was 11.5

[beto]

How wonderful, Pl1952 (gonna call you PL, or you sound like a robot or a spy) and thank you for posting this

25 to 8 is significant.  Yes scans and even biophys can show varying scores.  I don't know the margin for error...I should find that out.  However, all we can do is get the single scan.  My doctor was impressed by how detailed the report was on my scan.

I too am 59 and had a score before starting of 14.5, F4.  Just finished harvoni yesterday so I have a ways to go before the hopefully SVR.

Would be curious to know what you gastro or, hepatologist though of this development.  Very cool news indeed.

thanks again

[pl1952]

No spy or robot here!  Although being a robot might be cool!  lol

We're in NYC..Our heptalogist was amazed at the significant drop...Although we know you're as good as the person who takes these scans, we'll take that reading nonetheless..  My husband is like a new man. The difference in him and his overall well being is proof in just one year...I too just reached SVR 12 with Harvoni.  We're blessed to definitely have been able to treat with these new drugs..

Can't wait to hear your update and the drop you have!    Take care Beto!

[beto]

Good luck to you too...exciting time.  I hope a few more folks chime in.  Congrats to you both.

[Cute]

Hi,

My mother finished treatment with Harvoni and she is SVR 12. The main question for me now is how to accelerate her liver regeneration. She is 63 and doctor told us that liver regeneration is usually slow in this age.
Do you know any new medicine/drug, which is very effective for that purpose?
 

[beto]

Hey Cute,

Congrats to your ma!!! I am not an expert of course, but living with hep and liver issues for years makes researchers out of all of us.  From all I have heard and read, yes your doc is correct...most of the literature does seem to indicate fibrotic regression as very slow and especially in the elderly (and more stubborn the more advanced).  However, there are reports (grain of salt) of more rapid changes.  The rapid reports (and some studies) have shown this phenomenon...more prevalent after a major "cure" of hep or, after an alcoholic suddenly stops drinking.  Your doc is on top of the most recent peer reviewed data.  I tend to look for the most promising and positive info and results because I have F4 and want to reverse it  .  So I'm a believer in belief so to speak.  Best thing we can all do is to take care of our bodies, avoid known liver toxins and think positive.  I am aware of potential procedures and supplements that could be helpful and I will personally look into, but do not feel comfortable posting them in this medium. 

[Lynn K]

I don't think my doctor plans on frequent liver scans. Due to my portal-hypertension which is causing a low platelet count all due to cirrhosis I guess we will be looking at my platelet count which has been in the 80 to 90 range fro years now for improvement.

If my platelet count goes up and especially if it ever reaches normal that would be a very good sign of improved physical functioning of my liver. I suppose if we did see that we might do a fibroscan.

But the important thing is no matter what I won't get any worse and I can live with what I have right now.

Still though it would be excellent to see a normal platelet count someday

best to all

[beto]

Lynn, I sure hope you have improvement beyond just status quo.  That would be fantastic.  I for one am pulling for you.  It has been a while since you were scanned.  I wonder if regardless of platelets you might show lower scores.  Good luck and keep us informed.

beto

[Lynn K]

Yeah I was scanned last year for the 1st time just in case my insurance wanted something more recent than my Jan 08 biopsy that said F4 cirrhosis.

But really who would think my cirrhosis would get better 7 years later with still having hep c?

If I remember my fibroscan score was 27 kinda up there.

I am good with the status quo but just from a scientific interest stand point it would say a lot about the power of the human body to heal if I ever did regress to F3 after being F4 for so long and with symptoms

[Bucky]

I don't think my doctor plans on frequent liver scans. Due to my portal-hypertension which is causing a low platelet count all due to cirrhosis I guess we will be looking at my platelet count which has been in the 80 to 90 range fro years now for improvement.

If my platelet count goes up and especially if it ever reaches normal that would be a very good sign of improved physical functioning of my liver. I suppose if we did see that we might do a fibroscan.

But the important thing is no matter what I won't get any worse and I can live with what I have right now.

Still though it would be excellent to see a normal platelet count someday

best to all

Hello my little Squirrel,
Yes, I lurk from time to time and I saw your post. I saw my IDS for one last time on the 15th of Sept since it has been over a year since I completed treatment. All and all good things! No C, normal liver panel, normal INR, my platelets have increased by 12,000 (now 72,000) and for the first time in 20+ years my WBC is normal. At times it had been as low as 2.8. I asked her if my improved blood work was a sign of a healing liver and she said it was a good indication. 
I will be meeting my new Gastro in a couple weeks to find out what is next on this journey.
Bucky

[Lynn K]

Hi Lurker lol

Wow that is great and hopeful news for all of us.

My INR is on high side of normal 1.1 but other than that as my LFT have normalized you wouldn't know I have cirrhosis from my blood work.

Anyway great to hear from you and that you liver seems to be getting a little better

[Cute]

Thanks Lynn for comprehensive answer. I wish you good health and I believe in you. You are very strong person.

I have one more question.

Is it possible that ascites will go away after successful treatment of Hepatitis C?


 I googled a lot, but couldn't find any relative article about that. All information outdated or just too general. Please shed light on this issue. Many thanks!

[Lynn K]

Hi

Ascities are caused by cirrhosis not hep c. If cirrhosis improves with time the symptoms associated with cirrhosis may also improve.

We all are in a unique situation as never before has such a large cohort of patients been brought back from the brink. We are pioneers so there really won't be much data. We as we progress forward are the data.

But with cure of hep c our livers won't get any worse unless we develop HCC and may get better with time. The less damage one has the more improvement will occur.

Basically time will tell
Good luck
In health
Lynn

[beto]

Just an aside...

From all I have read and now observed from studies, this forum and open internet forums, my own journey and accounts from others; the best medicine for liver repair is removing the liver toxic burden.  For some folks, a lot of "burdens" were lifted all at once.  The big one of course hep c.  However, many also stopped imbibing...many suddenly discontinued other liver assaults as they began investigating...tylenol and other OTC's, as well as, prescribed liver challenging meds and supplements eliminated...avoiding environmental hepatic household toxins...many lost weight and discontinued poor diets and incorporated healthy liver friendly ones (reducing fatty liver).   Some also lowered iron levels (a well known liver toxin when in excess) Harvoni alone seems to lower ferritin and iron.  I could go on, however, in many cases this happened all at once.  Multi-burdens removed.

I realize many have known of their disease for a long time and had already made changes...but, even for them, when the cure is in sight...and you want to be absolutely sure the meds will work, ones denials and bad habits become a thing of the past Asap.  Most folks with Hep do not admit to their infected brethren that they drink or smoke.  One absolutely can not drink on Harvoni, or before starting or, after...so many in that camp removed that burden in a hurry.  Heppers newly diagnosed, never gave much thought to liver toxins and had to cold turkey across the board.

As Lynn reminded us, we are pioneers that represent a huge unprecedented group of people infected with a formally, near incurable disease that most certainly beats up on our most regenerative organ.  Interferon based treatments were very hard on the body, so the newer treatments are presumably much more liver friendly.  The studies that I and others have posted with respect to 'reversal' of cirrhosis mainly came from the hand full of survivors that interferon/riba cured.  Harvoni and Viekira packs have not been curing long enough for there to be any fibrosis improvement data. 

My point is "the sky's the limit" at least for now.  Yes I am being optimistic, however, I truly believe that we are going to see some remarkable turnarounds.  Belief is strong medicine.  Hep C has been talked about on this site and others sites, thoroughly.  The Dragon, as it has come to be known, aint gone until we not only cure everyone, but also roll up our sleeves and deal with the mayhem it leaves behind for some of us in the form of hepatic complications.

The studies that cite the removal of the burden of hep B, C and alcoholism show promise.  Let's hope that the new treatments combined with a greater knowledge of abstinence of liver toxic compounds, produces a better picture in the near future.  Let's look also for meds and supplement that might augment the cause for cirrhosis reversal.

[Lynn K]

Well said Beto we are the leading edge of a minor miracle for many of us to be sure.

Just wanted to add though for people with cirrhosis  minor pain management is somewhat problematic in people with cirrhosis.  Unfortunately many OTC pain medications such as ad Advil and Aleve also come with an increased risk of bleeding which for a person with cirrhosis can be a serious situation.  Tylenol when taken correctly and doses of less than 2000 mg per day is absolutely safe for someone with cirrhosis. The problem occurs when people don't realize that they're taking more Tylenol than they thought because it's hiding another medication medication such as cold meds which may also contained Tylenol and then you're taking additional Tylenol along with it.  So it becomes possible overdose on Tylenol without realizing you've ever done so.

 As I have cirrhosis and have had varices in the past my doctor has recommended that I only take Tylenol for pain management of minor pains. 

[mario555]

My grain of salt... I am just finishing a long trip around the Mediterranean after achieving SVR12 (hoping for SVR24...).  During my trip I changed my diet and ate like the Greeks, little meat, lots of grilled fish, greek salads with an abundance of olive oil. These are all items that I didn't care much for... I ate for hours on end and lost a few pounds and also noticed that most if not all Greeks are slim. My feelings of health were strong and I intend to continue this type of diet when I come back. I don't know how realistic this is but I can feel that this Mediterranean diet is liver friendly and overall health friendly. Also, being careful not to eat mass produced meat loaded with boosters and being careful around cleaning products might also help. So, to all of you, good health and good meals to all of you!

[sanisc]

Just wanted to give some good news and encouragement especially for those just beginning treatment.
Diagnosed in November 2014 probably infected in 1970's
First FibroScan December 9    13.5
Started 24 weeks Viekira Pac / Ribavirin on February 1,2015
Undetected after 4 weeks
EOT July 21 2015  FibroScan 6,8
12 weeks after EOT October 9, 2015  FibroScan 3,3

I am part of a study with my doctor and will be getting fibroscans every 6 months for 5 years.

[KimInTheForest]

Just wanted to give some good news and encouragement especially for those just beginning treatment.
Diagnosed in November 2014 probably infected in 1970's
First FibroScan December 9    13.5
Started 24 weeks Viekira Pac / Ribavirin on February 1,2015
Undetected after 4 weeks
EOT July 21 2015  FibroScan 6,8
12 weeks after EOT October 9, 2015  FibroScan 3,3

I am part of a study with my doctor and will be getting fibroscans every 6 months for 5 years.

WOW! That's a fantastic drop in fibroscan numbers, sanisc! Gives us all hope. Thanks for sharing.

kim

[beto]

Sanisc

Wonderful.  How very cool.  Happy for you and happy for the hope this will give to so many.  I think it is fantastic that you are on this fibroscan study and mondo kudos to you and the researches.  This information is so important.  Please post future numbers and pass on to your doctors that they are doing a great service with this program.  I can't wait for the outcome.  I am just into EOT...would love to be part of a study, as would I am sure many others,,,,so any info in that regard is appreciated.

I am about 14.5 so just into cirrhosis.  You at 13,5 were at the high side of F3 (borderline).  So what you found is truly an amazing development.  4 years ago if you had 13 points plus...many would have said you were in some trouble.  Today, everyone reading this can have hope.  Belief is indeed good medicine.  I know in spite of all of this great news, we must still await further clinical studies...but in the meantime we can all feast on the banquet of the anecdotal.   

[Lynn K]

Maybe my doctor will do a fibroscan next year as part of my one year post follow up. My fibroscan a year ago was 27 would be interesting to see if there has been any change.

Never hurts to ask

[beto]

Lynn I would bet it probably is...I so hope so.  I think I will  get scanned after EOT 12...maybe before but, I need to make sure I clear at least.  If it turns out that lots of people have improvement, it would be so exciting.  After all you have been through Lynn...clearing 24 and then liver improvement...wow...how cool would that be.  I need to stop getting ahead of myself.

[Lynn K]

With my F4 cirrhosis of 8 years now I think if I improve it will take time so I figure no rush to check.

I think one year post treatment might be long enough to have a look to see if anything has changed.

yeah oh to be F3 again..........