Reduce your viral load

[jester]

Hepatitis C is a disease caused by a virus that infects the liver. I've found that a very effective way to reduce viral load, liver damage and therefore symptoms, is to take a Shiitake mushroom product called "Noxylane4". This product, which is a 4th generation of "AHCC", greatly activates an innate immune cell called NK cell. NK cells target viruses and cancer cells preferentially. Mushrooms are known to be immune system enhancers because of their glucan content, especially Beta 1, 3D glucan. So you are not killing viruses directly, but activating your immune system to do it for you. Other mushrooms such as Maitake, Coriolus Versicolor (the product "PSK" is made from this mushroom), Agaricus Blazei, Reishi, and Cordyceps are all viral and cancer killing fungi among others. I have used Noxylane4 for years to keep my viral count down and greatly reduce my symptoms and it's a rather long story about how I discovered this. Noxylane4 is not cheap and I wait for Lane Labs (Compassionet) to put it on sale to buy it for sixty some dollars a bottle. It's on sale right now till the end of August. One more thing, use it according to the directions on the bottle and it's very fast acting, allowing you to see a substantial improvement in less than a week.
I also have been taking a combination of the following for many years in order to protect my liver: Milk thistle, especially the sylibinin extract, selenium, ALA (alpha lipoic acid) and biotin.

[jester]

Jester here, I'm adding something to my own post which I had over looked. The mushroom products I mentioned increase NK cell activity as I stated. When a woman is pregnant her body reduces NK cell activity to protect the baby. Therefore it may not be advisable to take these products if pregnant, unless you get tested for NK cell activity routinely. I don't know if there would be a danger to the baby or not. It certainly isn't worth taking the risk.

[Mugwump]

For many years while I was infected I ate shitake mushrooms, garlic, ginger, curry and a host of other things that are known to have good effects upon the liver.

I cannot say this diet did much to slow the disease progression but in so doing it opened me up to learning to cook in an Asian style cuisine that is absolutely fabulous. So if anything opening ones mind to other forms of diet which in itself is a great thing. If it does help promote a healthier diet and increase the ability to resist HCV then Bobs your uncle. Or should I say 健康 or

Jiànkāng
in English
 

[andrew j]

Interesting ...

I've only been buying mushrooms recently (I'm a year or so post - Tx) - and I'm finding that - yes - they really do have a calming - or 'settling' effect.

I've only just run out of milk thistle, as it happens (synchronicity, again?!) - and I'm really feeling it.
... Feeling a bit edgy - or vacant, or something.

... Selenium - yes; ALA - yes, also. ... I used to get it from a guy [here in New Zealand] who was a bit of a pioneer in treating Hep C (me) with 'alternative remedies'.

Curry?
Oh dear!
It's always been good!

Avocados are good for smoothing out the diet.
Pity they're so expensive a lot of the time! ...

[KimInTheForest]

How much Noxylane4 do you take daily, Jester? I'm trying to calculate what the daily cost would be. I see Amazon sells 50 caps of 250 mg each for $60 (Canadian).

Quackwatch says the claims about its predecessor (MGN-3) by same company have not been scientifically proven through controlled studies, etc. (https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/mgn3.html). But that doesn't mean it's not true. I am intrigued by prospect of boosting NK cells.

kim

[dragonslayer]

Interesting ...

I've only just run out of milk thistle, as it happens (synchronicity, again?!) - and I'm really feeling it.
... Feeling a bit edgy - or vacant, or something.

Andrew, I used to take Maximum Milk Thistle from the link below. .There are some NIH studies indicating this form is more bio available.  I have no idea if it did anything, but my fibrosis never progressed beyond stage 0-1 after being infected for over 40 years, so who knows?!    Aside from some scientific support, you get a better price if you subscribe, and most of all, you wont run out like you did now.. Anyway, if youre interested, here:

http://www.naturalwellness.com/products/maximum-milk-thistle

More info:

http://www.maximummilkthistle.com/clinical-studies-index.htm

[jester]

Kim,
I have been taking 1 to 2 double strength tablets per day for years, and once in awhile I will take more to boost the effect. The ones you're talking about are the regular strength which I don't buy. I only use the 500 mg tablets. Until recently, Amazon and others used to be a good money saving alternative to Lane Labs or their distributor Compassionet, but I have noticed that now it seems that all distributors are selling for the same price as Lane Labs. I think I'm reduced to buying from Lane Labs when they have one of their sales. This usually brings the price of a bottle of 500 mg tablets to sixty some dollars (USD).
I would be careful about "Quack Watch". They seem to be a mouthpiece for the pharmaceutical companies...I think that Quack Watch should investigate themselves. MGN3 was run out of town by the FDA who said they were making claims that they couldn't substantiate. I started with MGN3 and it was very effective indeed. I was to the point where I was just barely able to go to work. I had no idea what was wrong with me, but the symptoms were very bad. I learned about MGN3 from a mailing by Compassionet. I ordered a bottle and started taking the maintenance dose (because it was so expensive). Within 3 days I felt better than I had in many, many months. MGN3 was never billed as a Hep C treatment or anything else, just that it tripled activity of the immune system's NK cells. At this point I still had no idea what was wrong with me. The hard ache at the top of my head gradually disappeared as did the ache in my throat, along with all the other Hep C symptoms such as extreme dizziness, fatigue etc. I put 2 and 2 together when an insurance physical found my Hep C.
I read your bio Kim ...very impressive.              Jester

[KimInTheForest]

Thanks for the further info, Jester. Very interesting. One thing I wonder about supplements that "boost the immune system" is: Should they be taken long-term? I am thinking of echinacea and the advice (right on label) that says not to take it for more than 10-14 days continuously. And the whole notion that constant/daily tweaking of the immune system (at least with echinacea) could lead to immune collapse. What do you think of that?

I am very intrigued by Noxylane4 and may start using it for a health situation I am now in (a condition that arose during, and seems to have been triggered by, my Hep C treatment 2 years ago). (Amazon price in Canada for 50 caplets of double-strength is $85 CDN.)

kim

[jester]

Kim,
Immune system enhancement supplements and their long term effect is a very good point. I have always heard that with echinacea one has to cycle on and off, you can't keep taking it without a break. Noxylane4 has always been advertised as being able to continue taking it without interruption. There are other immune boosters that also advertise "no need to cycle on and off". I have been taking it steadily for 14 years now, but that's not to say that I won't have a problem somewhere down the line. Also, Noxylane4 advertises that it will not lose effectiveness with passage of time, in other words your body won't ''Get used to it". I can only tell you how it's worked for me. Who knows, I could be dead of Hep C in six months.        Jester

[KimInTheForest]

It sounds like you're doing quite well with it, Jester. Keep up the good work!

kim

[andrew j]

Paul,

Thanks for the link.

... No - availability isn't the issue - money is (as usual!) ...

I get a German one called 'Legalon' - which is good, but expensive.

Quality does seem to matter with these things, doesn't it?

It's the same with probiotics:
There's a world of difference between a good quality one, and an average one.

Jester,

Re Immune Boosters:

I used to take one called 'Del-Immune V'.
I still do take some - but probably don't need to / shouldn't anymore.
This - for me miracle - product, managed to put me back together after I was trashed by interferon back in 1998.

[Lynn K]

The best way to reduce your viral load and in fact completely eridicate the hep c virus is to be treated with the new medicines that can cure upwards of 98% of patients eridicate get the hep c virus for the majority of patients.

Why reduce instead of just being cured?

[dragonslayer]

The best way to reduce your viral load and in fact completely eridicate the hep c virus is to be treated with the new medicines that can cure upwards of 98% of patients eridicate get the hep c virus for the majority of patients.

Why reduce instead of just being cured?

Amen!    Why reduce when cures are so readily available and for most, very easy to take?     

[jester]

Lynn K and Dragon Slayer,
One cannot argue with your logic. However, here are a few things to keep in mind. A virus proliferates inside the cells of the body, in this case, the liver cells. If indeed every last virus is destroyed of the millions there were, you are indeed cured. If even one escapes, it will not be detected with your tests. A number of years later this one virus will have proliferated to millions again unless a strong immune system takes it out first. The scenario is kind of like it is for cancer. If even one cancerous stem cell escapes death after treatment, you still have cancer and it will take roughly 8 years before it grows in size enough for conventional methods of detection to find the cancer. Once again in this case, a strong immune system may kill the cancerous cell before it can multiply. You cannot overstate the importance of a strong immune system. It is premature to pronounce a "cure" after 3 to 6 months. One more thing for you to keep in mind. There is an organization called "Public Citizen"  with a drug watch-dog branch headed by Dr Sydney Wolfe Md who publishes a newsletter called "Worst Pills, Best Pills". You may want to subscribe to their newsletter. Their rule-of-thumb is to not take any drug until it's been on the market for 7 years, for the simple reason that you don't know the long term effects before then. I don't know how they feel about Harvoni.      Jester

[Lynn K]

Well at 2 years post treatment I am still cured and entirely confident in that result. As far as waiting, for folks like me with advanced liver disease i.e. liver cirrhosis for now over 9 years was not an option for me. That "rule of thumb" of waiting 7 years would likely have meant for me dying during that wait.

In fact I was involved in a couple of clinical trials taking meds that had not yet been approved at all in attempt to be cured.

But obviously everyone's situation is different.

[dragonslayer]

Jester, what you are saying flies in the face of of what is considered fact by hepatologists today.   The odds of relapsing after having achieved what is considered SVR today are miniscule.  Certainly, it would be fool's errand to bet against those odds, avoiding treatment.

[jester]

Dragon Slayer,
Point taken, but if your information is coming from pharmaceutical companies, take it with a grain of salt.    Jester

[Lynn K]

Well really the information is coming more from the AASLD and the National Institute of Health.

Personally, I take information coming from an individual with the aforementioned "grain of salt" and put more faith in prominent organizations like the AASLD and NIH.

Especially as Worst Pills charges for their services and the others don't.

[dragonslayer]

I think that another point to be made here is that there is no correlation between size of the viral load and severity of liver disease... So why the focus on reducing Viral load?   There is some correlation between viral load and infectability, and, if treatment is intended, lower viral load usually means shorter treatment.

But wrt liver disease, its a non factor.

[jester]

Dragon Slayer,
I think you'd better check your information source on your last post. Viral load is the amount of virus copies in your blood stream. The more virus particles, the more liver cells damaged. A virus cannot do damage until they invade a cell and hijack the cell's DNA replication apparatus. In this process, they damage the cell. The cell may die as a result, or it may even become cancerous, as its DNA has now been damaged.    Jester

[dragonslayer]

Jester, while what you say sounds reasonable in theory, practice does not seem to bear this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15285030

"CONCLUSION:
Our results indicate that the severity of liver disease is independent of serum levels of hepatitis C virus. These findings are important since they have a direct impact on the current debate regarding the role of direct cytopathic effect of hepatitis C virus versus immune-mediated injury in the pathogenesis of HCV-related liver damage."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5175502/

"CONCLUSION:

Grade of inflammation is the factor affecting fibrosis in CHC. The degree of liver damage is not related to cellular viral load or iron load"

[jester]

Dragon Slayer,
Very interesting! I would have to say that viral load is not the only player in liver disease/damage, but after all, it was hep C virus that started the damage to the liver in the first place. Once the liver or any part of the body has been damaged, the rules of the game change.Immune response and chains of secondary reactions and their consequences enter into the fray. Improperly modified immune reactions cause inflammation which damages tissue, and that in turn is a major disease contributor and accelerator. There are some well known compounds such as NFK-B (nuclear factor kappa beta), enzyme Cox-2 (cyclo oxygenase 2) and 5-Lox (5 Lipo oxygenase) among others, that trigger the production of inflammatory cytokines (chemical messengers that call for an immune response). There are measures such as reduction in dietary intake of meat and sugar, along with various natural supplements that reduce these inflammatory cytokines. Sugar is a big inflammation causing food, as well as excessive amounts of omega 6 fats (most commonly used vegetable oils) coupled with a lack of omega 3 fats such as those from fish oil. Thanks for the information. I see you do your homework, thanks for broadening my horizons.
       Jester