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Author Topic: HCV Log10...what does that mean?  (Read 28884 times)

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Offline Perca05

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« on: April 09, 2015, 06:18:49 pm »
Hi all...my 4 week test results are back and they all look great.  I wanted to know what the HCV Log10 is?  If the Harvoni kills the virus, will this drop to 0?  My current reading is:  HCV log10 1.301 log10 IU/mL

thanks!


Offline Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 993
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 06:44:38 pm »
Reporting a viral load in logs is an easier way to gauge treatment effectiveness.

Here's a useful chart that coverts log to viral load:

Log10   copies/mL
7   10,000,000
6.9   7,943,282
6.8   6,309,573
6.7   5,011,872
6.6   3,981,072
6.5   3,162,278
6.4   2,511,886
6.3   1,995,262
6.2   1,584,893
6.1   1,258,925
Log10   copies/mL
6   1,000,000
5.9   794,328
5.8   630,957
5.7   501,187
5.6   398,107
5.5   316,228
5.4   251,189
5.3   199,526
5.2   158,489
5.1   125,893
Log10   copies/mL
5   100,000
4.9   79,433
4.8   63,096
4.7   50,119
4.6   39,811
4.5   31,623
4.4   25,119
4.3   19,953
4.2   15,849
4.1   12,589
Log10   copies/mL
4   10,000
3.9   7,943
3.8   6,310
3.7   5,012
3.6   3,981
3.5   3,162
3.4   2,512
3.3   1,995
3.2   1,585
3.1   1,259
Log10   copies/mL
3   1,000
2.9   794
2.8   631
2.7   501
2.6   398
2.5   316
2.4   251
2.3   200
2.2   158
2.1   126
Log10   copies/mL
2   100
1.9   79
1.8   63
1.7   50
1.6   40
1.5   32
1.4   25
1.3   20
1.2   16
1.1   13
Log10   copies/mL
1   10
0.9   8
0.8   6
0.7   5
0.6   4
0.5   3
0.4   3
0.3   2
0.2   2
0.1   1

Your viral load is 20.

Best wishes, Mike
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 07:08:50 pm by Mike »
Genotype 1a
Treated 2001 with PEG and RIBV
Treated in 2014 SOL+PEG+RIBV
Cured July 2014

Offline Perca05

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 06:48:39 pm »
Thank you!  That answered my question.

Offline Bituman

  • Member
  • Posts: 157
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 11:14:21 pm »
"Log" means the common logarithm of a number in base 10 arithmetic.  Ask yourself a question:  what number do I have to raise 10 to, to get the number in question.  You can look at Mike's table and spot the easy examples.  For instance, what number do you have to raise 10 to, to get 1,000,000?  The answer from the table is 6.  In other words, 10 raised to the 6th power equals 1,000,000 so the log of 1,000,000 is 6.  In base 10, you can count the number of zeros to get the log.  For example, the log of 10,000 is 4.

So in your example, you raise 10 to the 1.301 power.  My calculator says 20, same as Mike told you.  So your VL is 20, which is a super good number.  Congratulations! 

It seems kind of silly for your lab to report the log of your VL.  I think they do this because before successful treatments were available, it was easier for doctors to converse in terms of log of VL because the numbers were otherwise so impossibly high.  People don't easily comprehend such big numbers.  Your lab report is a kind of leftover from those days. 

To answer your other question, you will never see zero expressed as a logarithm because it doesn't exist.  Actually, the last few numbers in that table are wrong.  The log of 1 is zero, not 0.1.   ;)

Scientists and engineers use log transformations to make their data more managable and more easily understood.  Lets say a hepatologist wanted to plot viral load of her patient versus number of orange pills taken.  That would be easy, except as we all know, the VL drops pretty quickly so the scale on y-axis would have to be impossibly large to get numbers like 1 million and 100 and 10 all on the same scale.  So to solve this problem, the hepatologist plots the log of these numbers, 6, 2, and 1, and the data all easily fits on the same scale. 

When I started high school we used log charts from the Navy to do our homework.  Then those of us who were especially nerdy started using slide rules to get logarithms.  That lasted a year or two into college at which time we all started using electronic calculators.  Now of course, spreadsheets like Excel do it for you. 

This is probably more than anyone really cares to know.  Obviously a slow night here in the desert.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 11:16:44 pm by Bituman »
Age = 59, male, infected likely 1975
DX 07/07 GT 1a
Biopsy 2007:  GR 1, stage 0, HAI = 2/18
Since 2007:  1.48 MM < VL < 11 MM, avg = 5.64 MM
IL28B=CT
1/26/15, AST=43, ALT=55, VL=3.59 MM
2/5 Start Harvoni 12 weeks; Treat naive
2/20 AST=29, ALT=24, VL=59
3/6 AST=29, ALT=25, VL<15
3/19 AST=24, ALT=22, VL=undet
4/3 AST=29, ALT=25, VL=undet
4/30 EOT, AST=22, ALT=20, VL=undet
5/29 EOT+4, AST=20, ALT=19, VL=undet SVR
7/24 EOT+12, AST=23, ALT=18, VL=undet SVR
10/16 EOT+24, AST=22, ALT=17, VL=undet SVR

Offline BubbaT

  • Member
  • Posts: 267
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2015, 06:36:47 pm »
mike, what do these results mean? I had this test done 6-14

 HCV  RNA. Quantitative  real time.    2289864.           <15 IU/ml
 HCV. RNA.  ".                  ".    ".        6.36.                 < 1.18 log IU/ml
Age 57 male
Infected late 70's
Diagnosed 95
1a, 2 prev biopsy 95, 2004
Ct 2007, 2015
Treatment Naive
F4 A3. Fibrosure/ CT 2-5-15. Ammonia 222
VL 2.2 mil.
Started Harvoni  3-3-15. 12weeks, finished 5-26-15
4 week VL undetected
12 week EOT undetected

Offline Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 993
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 07:21:27 pm »
The HCV  RNA. Quantitative  real time  2289864., means you have a viral load of 2,289,864 per Iu of blood. The second number expresses this in log form.

Mike
Genotype 1a
Treated 2001 with PEG and RIBV
Treated in 2014 SOL+PEG+RIBV
Cured July 2014

Offline StaciH

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 09:51:56 am »
'M
"Log" means the common logarithm of a number in base 10 arithmetic.  Ask yourself a question:  what number do I have to raise 10 to, to get the number in question.  You can look at Mike's table and spot the easy examples.  For instance, what number do you have to raise 10 to, to get 1,000,000?  The answer from the table is 6.  In other words, 10 raised to the 6th power equals 1,000,000 so the log of 1,000,000 is 6.  In base 10, you can count the number of zeros to get the log.  For example, the log of 10,000 is 4.

So in your example, you raise 10 to the 1.301 power.  My calculator says 20, same as Mike told you.  So your VL is 20, which is a super good number.  Congratulations! 

It seems kind of silly for your lab to report the log of your VL.  I think they do this because before successful treatments were available, it was easier for doctors to converse in terms of log of VL because the numbers were otherwise so impossibly high.  People don't easily comprehend such big numbers.  Your lab report is a kind of leftover from those days. 

To answer your other question, you will never see zero expressed as a logarithm because it doesn't exist.  Actually, the last few numbers in that table are wrong.  The log of 1 is zero, not 0.1.   ;)

Scientists and engineers use log transformations to make their data more managable and more easily understood.  Lets say a hepatologist wanted to plot viral load of her patient versus number of orange pills taken.  That would be easy, except as we all know, the VL drops pretty quickly so the scale on y-axis would have to be impossibly large to get numbers like 1 million and 100 and 10 all on the same scale.  So to solve this problem, the hepatologist plots the log of these numbers, 6, 2, and 1, and the data all easily fits on the same scale. 

When I started high school we used log charts from the Navy to do our homework.  Then those of us who were especially nerdy started using slide rules to get logarithms.  That lasted a year or two into college at which time we all started using electronic calculators.  Now of course, spreadsheets like Excel do it for you. 

This is probably more than anyone really cares to know.  Obviously a slow night here in the desert.

Bob

Offline dragonslayerinprogress

  • Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: HCV Log10...what does that mean?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2016, 06:14:22 am »
What does HCV log 1 .       Result NP  mean
Is that a negative positive?
Geno 2b
dx in 1990, 52 years old
Origin: unsure. Might have been infected at birth
Tx Naive
Pre tx labs 12/7/15
VL 1,315,890 6.119
ALT 188
AST 161
Started tx Solvadi/Ribavirin on 1/19/16
4 weeks undetected
8 weeks undetected
12 weeks undetected
16 weeks undetected
20 weeks undetected
24 weeks...no testing
EOT 4 wks UNDETECTED
ALT 34
AST 42
EOT 8 wks- UNDETECTED
ALT 38
AST 50
Platelets 49

 


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