Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late

[Hep Editors]

One more reason to seek out a hep C cure: Even if you already have cirrhosis, going through an effective course of treatment can drop that FibroScan liver stiffness number by up to 30% -- sometimes even reversing the condition.

For more info: https://www.hepmag.com/article/liver-stiffness-27674

[Mike]

That is such great news!

Mike

[beto]

I read a similar study to this and it was encouraging.  The other study also followed post alcohol cirrhotics as well as hepatitis survivors.  A small percentage were said to have dropped to below F-2.  I will post it when I find it, so take my memory of it with a grain of salt.  However, the conclusions were, that removing the burden of the disease or the liver destructive element, may begin a partial healing reversal.  The Hep drugs were interferon and ribo.  To my knowledge there have been no official reports or studies with Harvoni, it is too new.  I also had a fibroscan guy tell me that they have seen post cure heppers with lower numbers than before.  My common sense wonders; if our livers are functioning at all, then there has to be some healthy (or partly healthy) tissue.  If so, liver cells are known to be the most regenerative in the body.  Might not they have more opportunity to heal and regenerate if not dealing with the powerful burden of 2 million viral load or a filth of Jack a day?  The other curious thing I have noticed on Harvoni, is the fact that my ferritin iron numbers plummeted in just 6 weeks without phlebotomies.  Seems to me a liver full of iron would be stiff.  Disclaimer: I am just speculating here.  Anyway, I choose to believe that cirrhosis can and will improve.  After all most of us never thought we would see the cure for Hep-C but look (knock on wood) what came along.  For me the wait has been decades, now it is time to "slay" a new dragon...bring it on! peace all

[Mike]

My mother had 2/3 of her liver excised (removed) and it rejuvenated to it's original size in about 9 months. Liver cells can replicate from healthy liver tissue. Scar tissue, however, will not rejuvenate.

Mike

[beto]

Yes Mike, that is the medical "dead end conclusion" regarding cirrhosis that I have always heard.  However, there is a school that believes that it may be possible for some non-advanced fibrotic tissue to soften.  That perhaps anti-fibrin/fibrinogen drugs or supplements, may succeed in actually breaking down some of the stiff tissue and then reversal may be possible.  I know there is a lot of ‘experimentation with serapeptase a supplement that comes from the silk worm.  Whether it works to breakdown the scar tissue, or not…well time will tell.  All I know is that there is a burgeoning market for such a substance for someone to developed, given that so many folks will find themselves in my shoes, when there is not exactly a surplus of livers for transplant.

Regardless if this is possible or not, there has to be some healthy cells in most cases of cirrhosis, otherwise how would there be function?  Let’s hope that this field of study brings more good news, and soon.  Nervous tissue was believed incapable of regeneration just 20 years ago.  Now the word “neuroplasticity” is practically household.     

[beto]

Here is the article I read from the Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology & Nutrition: April 2007 - Volume 44 - Issue 4 - p 401–406.  I have also included an interesting paragraph.  Hope there is truth to it.

Broken link removed by moderator

Regression of fibrosis and cirrhosis in humans is not a novel concept. Anecdotal reports published more than 30 years ago recorded an improvement in patients with cirrhosis treated for hemochromatosis and Wilson disease (48,49). More recently, regression of fibrosis and cirrhosis (Table 1) has been documented in the entire spectrum of chronic liver diseases (11–21) (ie, in autoimmune hepatitis and primary biliary cirrhosis after effective immunosuppressive therapy, in biliary obstruction after surgical decompression, in thalassemia after iron depletion, in hepatitis B after lamivudine therapy, and in hepatitis D during long-term follow-up after IFN treatment). Larger studies have been conducted in patients with HCV-related cirrhosis. Poynard et al (21) examined liver biopsy specimens taken before and after therapy from 153 patients with HCV-related cirrhosis treated with different pegylated IFN and ribavirin regimens. Using the METAVIR scoring system, they found that the extent of liver fibrosis had improved in 75 (49%) patients: from stage 4 to stage 3 in 23 patients, to stage 2 in 26 patients, to stage 1 in 23 patients, and to a virtually normal histological appearance in 3 patients. No such improvements were recorded in the control group of patients treated with IFN monotherapy. Reversal of cirrhosis was more common among younger patients.

[gnatcatcher]

Beto, many thanks for the link. It led me to search for more recent articles. Here are two I found especially clear and helpful:
1. "Review article: the reversibility of cirrhosis" http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Reza_Malekzadeh/publication/230831436_Review_article_the_reversibility_of_cirrhosis/links/09e41505b50e8c124d000000.pdf
2. "Fibrosis Regression is Possible after Successful Treatment of Hepatitis C, Even with Cirrhosis" in poster format: http://www.corevih-bretagne.fr/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Congrès/IAS_2015_Vancouver/IAS2015_Poster_Trottier.pdf

NOTE on #2: you'll have to copy and paste the ENTIRE link because the hep forum software didn't turn all of it into a clickable link.

[beto]

Thanks Gnatcatcher,

Encouraging.  That's 4 studies now.  I also have some alternative info but, thought best not to post it for now.  You and I are in very similar straights.  Both Tx naive, fibro F4, have lived with it for a long time and started very close to the same date for 12 weeks.  It's just another bump in the road right?  We be will OK.  Belief is strong medicine and therefore I choose to believe that we can and will reverse.  Good luck on your last month.  How is your overall health holding up?

[gnatcatcher]

Wow, Beto, our sig files sure are similar!

Although I've collected a slew of diagnoses over the years, (starting with the one that was solved by the surgery that gave me Hep C), I haven't let them get in the way of living. If a cat has nine lives, I must have more. Although the decades of Hep C sapped my energy, that gave me a great excuse to focus the remaining energy on what really mattered. The very first Harvoni pill restored my energy level, and the side effects have been minor. How about you?

It's great that scientists and doctors now face mounting evidence of neuroplasticity as well as liver elasticity (cirrhosis reversal). And the psychological literature is full of studies that show precisely which mindsets produce the best outcomes. We have the world's wisdom at our fingertips and instant supportive communities like the hep forums. What a terrific time to be alive!

Yes, we will be OK. Or, as Julian of Norwich came to understand, "All shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well." Enjoy the journey!

Gnatty

[beto]

Sides minor, mostly good energy...I work hard at a job built for younger folks and I go to the gym fairly often.  Nine lives here too.  Told by a young doc years ago that I might not see my 50th birthday.  Finished a marathon at 51.  Turn sixty in Jan.  So, a very interesting journey. "never relent"  When I get that bad life changing news,I am bummed out for like an hour and then my life force turns to "there is always a way."  I have held the attitude for a long time that every disease has been beat by a body somewhere and that's enough for me. Thanks Gnaty for the extra punch of positivity.