Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 20, 2024, 07:01:49 am

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 6307
  • Latest: golfer
Stats
  • Total Posts: 55126
  • Total Topics: 4851
  • Online Today: 87
  • Online Ever: 1314
  • (June 22, 2016, 05:23:42 am)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 88
Total: 88

Welcome

Welcome to the Hep Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people who have Fatty Liver Disease, Hepatitis B, C or a co-infection, their friends and family and others with questions about hepatitis and liver health. Check in frequently to read what others have to say, post your comments, and hopefully learn more about how you can reach your own health goals.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.
  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.
  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.
  • Product advertisement (including links); banners; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from the Hep Forum Moderators.
Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late  (Read 11898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hep Editors

  • Member
  • Posts: 784
    • Hep Mag
Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« on: August 25, 2015, 12:22:50 pm »
One more reason to seek out a hep C cure: Even if you already have cirrhosis, going through an effective course of treatment can drop that FibroScan liver stiffness number by up to 30% -- sometimes even reversing the condition.

For more info: https://www.hepmag.com/article/liver-stiffness-27674
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 02:25:21 pm by iana5252 »

Offline Mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 999
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 07:06:07 pm »
That is such great news!

Mike
Genotype 1a
Treated 2001 with PEG and RIBV
Treated in 2014 SOL+PEG+RIBV
Cured July 2014

Offline beto

  • Member
  • Posts: 548
  • "no risk it, no biscuit"
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 10:53:26 pm »
I read a similar study to this and it was encouraging.  The other study also followed post alcohol cirrhotics as well as hepatitis survivors.  A small percentage were said to have dropped to below F-2.  I will post it when I find it, so take my memory of it with a grain of salt.  However, the conclusions were, that removing the burden of the disease or the liver destructive element, may begin a partial healing reversal.  The Hep drugs were interferon and ribo.  To my knowledge there have been no official reports or studies with Harvoni, it is too new.  I also had a fibroscan guy tell me that they have seen post cure heppers with lower numbers than before.  My common sense wonders; if our livers are functioning at all, then there has to be some healthy (or partly healthy) tissue.  If so, liver cells are known to be the most regenerative in the body.  Might not they have more opportunity to heal and regenerate if not dealing with the powerful burden of 2 million viral load or a filth of Jack a day?  The other curious thing I have noticed on Harvoni, is the fact that my ferritin iron numbers plummeted in just 6 weeks without phlebotomies.  Seems to me a liver full of iron would be stiff.  Disclaimer: I am just speculating here.  Anyway, I choose to believe that cirrhosis can and will improve.  After all most of us never thought we would see the cure for Hep-C but look (knock on wood) what came along.  For me the wait has been decades, now it is time to "slay" a new dragon...bring it on! peace all
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 11:27:11 am by beto »
HCV/nonA,nonB acute phase 1975
HCV detected active 1990
HCV persistent chronic diagnosis 1995
1995 liver enzymes mild elevations
1996 Biopsy F2 fibrosis
treatment naive geno 1-A
2000-to early 2015 Viral load 150, 000 to 800, 000
recent liver enzymes before treatment alt/ast 59to209,  Fibroscan F4,cirrhosis
start tx Harvoni 7/11/2015
6.5 week-UD-ast/alt 25/25
9wk-UD-ast18 alt23
10/3/15 completed tx
11/5/15 new fibroscan f0-f1 amazed
6wk EOT UD ast/alt 20/20
12EOT-UD-ast/alt19/21
25wk-SVR! 19/18

Offline Mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 999
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 04:28:36 pm »
My mother had 2/3 of her liver excised (removed) and it rejuvenated to it's original size in about 9 months. Liver cells can replicate from healthy liver tissue. Scar tissue, however, will not rejuvenate.

Mike
Genotype 1a
Treated 2001 with PEG and RIBV
Treated in 2014 SOL+PEG+RIBV
Cured July 2014

Offline beto

  • Member
  • Posts: 548
  • "no risk it, no biscuit"
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2015, 07:32:10 pm »
Yes Mike, that is the medical "dead end conclusion" regarding cirrhosis that I have always heard.  However, there is a school that believes that it may be possible for some non-advanced fibrotic tissue to soften.  That perhaps anti-fibrin/fibrinogen drugs or supplements, may succeed in actually breaking down some of the stiff tissue and then reversal may be possible.  I know there is a lot of ‘experimentation with serapeptase a supplement that comes from the silk worm.  Whether it works to breakdown the scar tissue, or not…well time will tell.  All I know is that there is a burgeoning market for such a substance for someone to developed, given that so many folks will find themselves in my shoes, when there is not exactly a surplus of livers for transplant.

Regardless if this is possible or not, there has to be some healthy cells in most cases of cirrhosis, otherwise how would there be function?  Let’s hope that this field of study brings more good news, and soon.  Nervous tissue was believed incapable of regeneration just 20 years ago.  Now the word “neuroplasticity” is practically household.     
HCV/nonA,nonB acute phase 1975
HCV detected active 1990
HCV persistent chronic diagnosis 1995
1995 liver enzymes mild elevations
1996 Biopsy F2 fibrosis
treatment naive geno 1-A
2000-to early 2015 Viral load 150, 000 to 800, 000
recent liver enzymes before treatment alt/ast 59to209,  Fibroscan F4,cirrhosis
start tx Harvoni 7/11/2015
6.5 week-UD-ast/alt 25/25
9wk-UD-ast18 alt23
10/3/15 completed tx
11/5/15 new fibroscan f0-f1 amazed
6wk EOT UD ast/alt 20/20
12EOT-UD-ast/alt19/21
25wk-SVR! 19/18

Offline beto

  • Member
  • Posts: 548
  • "no risk it, no biscuit"
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 08:55:48 pm »
Here is the article I read from the Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology & Nutrition: April 2007 - Volume 44 - Issue 4 - p 401–406.  I have also included an interesting paragraph.  Hope there is truth to it.

Broken link removed by moderator

Regression of fibrosis and cirrhosis in humans is not a novel concept. Anecdotal reports published more than 30 years ago recorded an improvement in patients with cirrhosis treated for hemochromatosis and Wilson disease (48,49). More recently, regression of fibrosis and cirrhosis (Table 1) has been documented in the entire spectrum of chronic liver diseases (11–21) (ie, in autoimmune hepatitis and primary biliary cirrhosis after effective immunosuppressive therapy, in biliary obstruction after surgical decompression, in thalassemia after iron depletion, in hepatitis B after lamivudine therapy, and in hepatitis D during long-term follow-up after IFN treatment). Larger studies have been conducted in patients with HCV-related cirrhosis. Poynard et al (21) examined liver biopsy specimens taken before and after therapy from 153 patients with HCV-related cirrhosis treated with different pegylated IFN and ribavirin regimens. Using the METAVIR scoring system, they found that the extent of liver fibrosis had improved in 75 (49%) patients: from stage 4 to stage 3 in 23 patients, to stage 2 in 26 patients, to stage 1 in 23 patients, and to a virtually normal histological appearance in 3 patients. No such improvements were recorded in the control group of patients treated with IFN monotherapy. Reversal of cirrhosis was more common among younger patients.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 02:26:15 pm by iana5252 »
HCV/nonA,nonB acute phase 1975
HCV detected active 1990
HCV persistent chronic diagnosis 1995
1995 liver enzymes mild elevations
1996 Biopsy F2 fibrosis
treatment naive geno 1-A
2000-to early 2015 Viral load 150, 000 to 800, 000
recent liver enzymes before treatment alt/ast 59to209,  Fibroscan F4,cirrhosis
start tx Harvoni 7/11/2015
6.5 week-UD-ast/alt 25/25
9wk-UD-ast18 alt23
10/3/15 completed tx
11/5/15 new fibroscan f0-f1 amazed
6wk EOT UD ast/alt 20/20
12EOT-UD-ast/alt19/21
25wk-SVR! 19/18

Offline gnatcatcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,372
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 04:00:43 am »
Beto, many thanks for the link. It led me to search for more recent articles. Here are two I found especially clear and helpful:
1. "Review article: the reversibility of cirrhosis" http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Reza_Malekzadeh/publication/230831436_Review_article_the_reversibility_of_cirrhosis/links/09e41505b50e8c124d000000.pdf
2. "Fibrosis Regression is Possible after Successful Treatment of Hepatitis C, Even with Cirrhosis" in poster format: http://www.corevih-bretagne.fr/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Congrès/IAS_2015_Vancouver/IAS2015_Poster_Trottier.pdf

NOTE on #2: you'll have to copy and paste the ENTIRE link because the hep forum software didn't turn all of it into a clickable link.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 02:28:28 pm by iana5252 »
9/29/71 transfusions
HCV genotype 1a
7/09/15-9/30/15 Harvoni

Before treatment:
Viral Load 9,490,582
FibroScan 19.5 kPa [F4]
ALT 262
AST 217
ALP 183

Most recent:
VL still UNDETECTED (SVR 102)
FibroScan 7.6 kPa [F1-2]
ALT 15
AST 20
ALP 85

Offline beto

  • Member
  • Posts: 548
  • "no risk it, no biscuit"
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 12:23:08 pm »
Thanks Gnatcatcher,

Encouraging.  That's 4 studies now.  I also have some alternative info but, thought best not to post it for now.  You and I are in very similar straights.  Both Tx naive, fibro F4, have lived with it for a long time and started very close to the same date for 12 weeks.  It's just another bump in the road right?  We be will OK.  Belief is strong medicine and therefore I choose to believe that we can and will reverse.  Good luck on your last month.  How is your overall health holding up?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 12:36:15 pm by beto »
HCV/nonA,nonB acute phase 1975
HCV detected active 1990
HCV persistent chronic diagnosis 1995
1995 liver enzymes mild elevations
1996 Biopsy F2 fibrosis
treatment naive geno 1-A
2000-to early 2015 Viral load 150, 000 to 800, 000
recent liver enzymes before treatment alt/ast 59to209,  Fibroscan F4,cirrhosis
start tx Harvoni 7/11/2015
6.5 week-UD-ast/alt 25/25
9wk-UD-ast18 alt23
10/3/15 completed tx
11/5/15 new fibroscan f0-f1 amazed
6wk EOT UD ast/alt 20/20
12EOT-UD-ast/alt19/21
25wk-SVR! 19/18

Offline gnatcatcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,372
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 02:13:19 pm »
Wow, Beto, our sig files sure are similar!

Although I've collected a slew of diagnoses over the years, (starting with the one that was solved by the surgery that gave me Hep C), I haven't let them get in the way of living. If a cat has nine lives, I must have more. Although the decades of Hep C sapped my energy, that gave me a great excuse to focus the remaining energy on what really mattered. The very first Harvoni pill restored my energy level, and the side effects have been minor. How about you?

It's great that scientists and doctors now face mounting evidence of neuroplasticity as well as liver elasticity (cirrhosis reversal). And the psychological literature is full of studies that show precisely which mindsets produce the best outcomes. We have the world's wisdom at our fingertips and instant supportive communities like the hep forums. What a terrific time to be alive!

Yes, we will be OK. Or, as Julian of Norwich came to understand, "All shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well." Enjoy the journey!

Gnatty
9/29/71 transfusions
HCV genotype 1a
7/09/15-9/30/15 Harvoni

Before treatment:
Viral Load 9,490,582
FibroScan 19.5 kPa [F4]
ALT 262
AST 217
ALP 183

Most recent:
VL still UNDETECTED (SVR 102)
FibroScan 7.6 kPa [F1-2]
ALT 15
AST 20
ALP 85

Offline beto

  • Member
  • Posts: 548
  • "no risk it, no biscuit"
Re: Have Cirrhosis? It's Not Too Late
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 03:11:29 pm »
Sides minor, mostly good energy...I work hard at a job built for younger folks and I go to the gym fairly often.  Nine lives here too.  Told by a young doc years ago that I might not see my 50th birthday.  Finished a marathon at 51.  Turn sixty in Jan.  So, a very interesting journey. "never relent"  When I get that bad life changing news,I am bummed out for like an hour and then my life force turns to "there is always a way."  I have held the attitude for a long time that every disease has been beat by a body somewhere and that's enough for me. Thanks Gnaty for the extra punch of positivity. 
HCV/nonA,nonB acute phase 1975
HCV detected active 1990
HCV persistent chronic diagnosis 1995
1995 liver enzymes mild elevations
1996 Biopsy F2 fibrosis
treatment naive geno 1-A
2000-to early 2015 Viral load 150, 000 to 800, 000
recent liver enzymes before treatment alt/ast 59to209,  Fibroscan F4,cirrhosis
start tx Harvoni 7/11/2015
6.5 week-UD-ast/alt 25/25
9wk-UD-ast18 alt23
10/3/15 completed tx
11/5/15 new fibroscan f0-f1 amazed
6wk EOT UD ast/alt 20/20
12EOT-UD-ast/alt19/21
25wk-SVR! 19/18

 


© 2024 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.