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Author Topic: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis  (Read 10241 times)

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Offline elias

  • Member
  • Posts: 285
Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« on: April 24, 2017, 08:50:56 pm »
I've come across reference to melatonin as a preventative of liver fibrosis as well as a potential aid to help fibrosis regression:

http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/18/4/673/htm


I'm not clear on the dosage, however

Quite by coincidence, I re-tried 5 mg tablet of melatonin  last week in attempt to induce sleep. I had bad "hangover" from it the next day. And my brain  was clogged . Felt headachey for 2 days. I was about to order a lower dose tablet, on chance that would be better tolerated when I came upon the above write-up. The dosage references there r way larger--in realm of 10mg/kg-- but that's with regard to toxicity prophylaxis. Anyone have any updated info as to dosage it might work already existing fibrosis? Would be great to kill two birds with one stone. Though I'm unclear as to how large a stone is needed-for either purpose





Contracted HCV ~age 12
Diagnosed: September 2016 GT2b
F3 by Fibrosure: 0.66
Necroinflammat activity: A3 0.76
================
VL Sep. 12, 2016: 1.44 million/ Log: 6.157
AST:71/ ALT:114   Sept. 1, 2016 Before treatment
==================
4 week after beginning  Epclusa:
Viral Load: UNDETECTED
AST 17/ALT 11
===============
Began Epclusa:  October 22, 2016
End of Treatment [EOT]: January 13. 2017
====================
EOT+4 Weeks: UNDETECTED
====================
SVR 12 April14-HCV Not Detected

Offline elias

  • Member
  • Posts: 285
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 07:44:17 pm »
To add to my previous post:

Re: Possible side-effects of melatonin:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/melatonin/safety/hrb-20059770

I've had a few of the above adverse effects after only 3mg tablet of melatonin. They are too tiny to break in smaller doses.

I have read that for sleep aid  0.3mg (~one tenth of above dosage) is recommended at least as starting point. But the source isn't so clear. Something like "National Sleep Organization. Whoever that is..

and this from a group at MIT:

Quote
"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."

The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects.

http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

So next step is finding out if that low a dose would even do much. Then somewhow finding a tablet with that low a dose. OTC tabs are 3-20 mg generally. So 0.3mg is hard to manage

Hoping for feedback on this

« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 07:52:02 pm by elias »
Contracted HCV ~age 12
Diagnosed: September 2016 GT2b
F3 by Fibrosure: 0.66
Necroinflammat activity: A3 0.76
================
VL Sep. 12, 2016: 1.44 million/ Log: 6.157
AST:71/ ALT:114   Sept. 1, 2016 Before treatment
==================
4 week after beginning  Epclusa:
Viral Load: UNDETECTED
AST 17/ALT 11
===============
Began Epclusa:  October 22, 2016
End of Treatment [EOT]: January 13. 2017
====================
EOT+4 Weeks: UNDETECTED
====================
SVR 12 April14-HCV Not Detected

Offline Gaj

  • Member
  • Posts: 172
  • Optimist
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 09:40:00 pm »
Hi Elias,

I can't answer your questions but just wanted to note that most melatonin pills are formulated as a slow release tablet that is designed to very gradually dissolve over several hours as you sleep so that there is a small continuous dose entering your bloodstream.  Splitting these will release the dose over a much shorter period and is not a recommended option for this style of tablet so you should check this if you find some of slightly higher dose than you need such as 1mg.
Male - 61 years
Genotype 3a (since 1978?)
Diagnosed 2012
Treated 2013 PEG/Riba/Dac (Relapsed)
F4 - HCC#1 Resected 06/15 - #2 RFAblated 11/15
11/18/15 Commenced Generic Tx - Sof/Dac/Riba (24wks)
Pre Tx = ALT: 270  AST: 209  ALB: 31
05/05/16 = ALT: 34  AST: 32  ALB: 40  VL: Undetected (EOT)
06/16/16 = Relapsed
06/23/16 = ALT: 92  AST: 59  ALB: 40  VL: 290,770
01/12/17 3rd Tx - Zepatier + Sofosbuvir (16wks)
05/03/17 EOT und
06/22/17 SVR7 und
07/27/17 SVR12 UND!
10/26/17 SVR24 UND & Cured!!!

Offline tmf2

  • Member
  • Posts: 42
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 08:15:26 pm »
I have vivid nightmares with 3mg dose went to 1mg nightmares went away. You should start with a low dose and work your way up.

Dennis

Offline elias

  • Member
  • Posts: 285
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 10:18:07 pm »
Ty Dennis.  Im looking for melatonin at even lower dose than 1 mg.

Do those 1 mg tablets help you much with sleep? Is the sleep sustained?
Contracted HCV ~age 12
Diagnosed: September 2016 GT2b
F3 by Fibrosure: 0.66
Necroinflammat activity: A3 0.76
================
VL Sep. 12, 2016: 1.44 million/ Log: 6.157
AST:71/ ALT:114   Sept. 1, 2016 Before treatment
==================
4 week after beginning  Epclusa:
Viral Load: UNDETECTED
AST 17/ALT 11
===============
Began Epclusa:  October 22, 2016
End of Treatment [EOT]: January 13. 2017
====================
EOT+4 Weeks: UNDETECTED
====================
SVR 12 April14-HCV Not Detected

Offline tmf2

  • Member
  • Posts: 42
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 06:40:31 pm »
Ty Dennis.  Im looking for melatonin at even lower dose than 1 mg.

Do those 1 mg tablets help you much with sleep? Is the sleep sustained?

Yes they work pretty good

.Remember Melatonin is a hormone not a sleeping pill and to be used in duration no more then 3 weeks per info I have researched . Why ?...... the body will adapt to the supplement and long durations on this hormone can inhibit the body to secrete this naturally.

Dennis
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:38:09 pm by tmf2 »

Offline CureSeeker

  • Member
  • Posts: 121
  • Virus Free! Happy Dance Time!
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 06:20:46 pm »
I found the dose you are looking for - in drops.  15 per serving it says.  It also comes with 50mg of elderberry, which has sedative properties.

I'm not sure I would use something that left me feeling hungover, and especially not something that is a hormone, but I am answering your question nonetheless.

I'm not judging, I just don't like messing around with hormones.  Best wishes!

http://www.vitaminlife.com/index/page/product/product_id/79268/product_name/Melatonin+Elderberry++0+3+mg+Dropins+Cherry?CAWELAID=520007010000143597&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&utm_term=1100501317530&utm_content=Ad%20group%20%231

http://www.health-care-tips.org/herbal-medicines/elderberry.htm

Elderberry contains cyanogenic glycosides & it should be used with caution.  These are substances that release the poison cyanide.

The more I read the more I think you should try something else.  Even Ambien seems better. 

The way alcohol gets us drunk & subsequently hungover is by literally poisoning our livers.  I would be worried about poisoning my liver with anything.



« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 06:30:24 pm by CureSeeker »
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

~ Arthur Conan Doyle


Genotype 3a, F 0-1
Sovaldi & Ribavirin x 24 weeks

2/23/16 - UNDETECTED!  SVR12 achieved.  :D
6/21/17 - UNDETECTED!  1.5 years post treatment.
July 2018 - UNDETECTED!

Offline dragonslayer

  • Member
  • Posts: 873
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2017, 06:35:47 pm »
.3 mg is about the right dose according to experts. .These have done pretty well for me:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OYJWX1M/?th=1
Paul

DX 2008
Started Harvoni 11/26/14 for 8 wks
Completed 8 wks Harvoni 01/20/15
EOT RNA Quant result:  Detected 29
7.5 wk post tx: Detected < LLOQ(12)
11 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR12
24 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR24; AST 26; ALT 22; ALP 73
48 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR48; AST 18; ALT 18; ALP 70
GT 1a
vl 2.4mil
2008 bpx: Stage&Grade 0
2013 bpx: Stage&Grade: 0-1
IL28B: TT
likely infected early '70s

Offline elias

  • Member
  • Posts: 285
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 07:07:46 pm »
Hi Dragonslayer

Do 0.3 mg=3mcg melatonin actually help u fall asleep?
Contracted HCV ~age 12
Diagnosed: September 2016 GT2b
F3 by Fibrosure: 0.66
Necroinflammat activity: A3 0.76
================
VL Sep. 12, 2016: 1.44 million/ Log: 6.157
AST:71/ ALT:114   Sept. 1, 2016 Before treatment
==================
4 week after beginning  Epclusa:
Viral Load: UNDETECTED
AST 17/ALT 11
===============
Began Epclusa:  October 22, 2016
End of Treatment [EOT]: January 13. 2017
====================
EOT+4 Weeks: UNDETECTED
====================
SVR 12 April14-HCV Not Detected

Offline CureSeeker

  • Member
  • Posts: 121
  • Virus Free! Happy Dance Time!
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 07:24:25 pm »
Yes they work pretty good

.Remember Melatonin is a hormone not a sleeping pill and to be used in duration no more then 3 weeks per info I have researched . Why ?...... the body will adapt to the supplement and long durations on this hormone can inhibit the body to secrete this naturally.

Dennis

Interesting Dennis.  I agree that you shouldn't play with hormones.   From what I'm reading on the side effects and interactions tabs of WebMD, Melatonin can contribute to daytime sleepiness, depression and irritability.  It's use can explain some personalities I've encountered, lol.

Due to its ability to have an effect on other common medications  (i.e. diabetic, high blood pressure, anticoagulants and birth control pills), and some uncommon medications including immune suppressants taken by transplant patients.  People should look at it closely before trying it.

A good night's sleep is priceless though, so if you are young and healthy with no birth control issues, why not?  :)



Hi Dragonslayer

Do 0.3 mg=3mcg melatonin actually help u fall asleep?

Hi Elias,

The dose s/he posted is 300 MCG.  I'm sure you already ran the use of this by your doctor but, if not, you might want to print out a copy of that study and show it to your doctor.  Your doctor may have a better solution to your problem, if your doctor doesn't approve of your use of melatonin.

Best wishes!



« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 08:47:59 pm by CureSeeker »
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

~ Arthur Conan Doyle


Genotype 3a, F 0-1
Sovaldi & Ribavirin x 24 weeks

2/23/16 - UNDETECTED!  SVR12 achieved.  :D
6/21/17 - UNDETECTED!  1.5 years post treatment.
July 2018 - UNDETECTED!

Offline dragonslayer

  • Member
  • Posts: 873
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 10:21:13 pm »
Hi Dragonslayer

Do 0.3 mg=3mcg melatonin actually help u fall asleep?

Hey Elias....

.3mg=300 mcg, not 3mcg.   Yea, it actually works for me..   Its now the only thing I take at night. I used to take way too much, as the market is not shy about promoting dosages which by all accounts are way too much.. I happened upon this more correct dose and it seems to be working better for me than the over doses..

I agree that it would be best in an ideal world to not take anything to help with sleep.. However  night after night of not sleeping is clearly horrible for your health, so you pick your poison..  My  particular insomnia issue has to do with waking up after 4 or 5 hrs rather than not being able to fall asleep.   And for that, I havent found a good solution.. yet..
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 11:21:03 pm by dragonslayer »
Paul

DX 2008
Started Harvoni 11/26/14 for 8 wks
Completed 8 wks Harvoni 01/20/15
EOT RNA Quant result:  Detected 29
7.5 wk post tx: Detected < LLOQ(12)
11 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR12
24 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR24; AST 26; ALT 22; ALP 73
48 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR48; AST 18; ALT 18; ALP 70
GT 1a
vl 2.4mil
2008 bpx: Stage&Grade 0
2013 bpx: Stage&Grade: 0-1
IL28B: TT
likely infected early '70s

Offline elias

  • Member
  • Posts: 285
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 10:38:49 pm »
Ooops!

Yeah. 0.3 mg is indeed 300mcg. Sleep deprivation has really been kicking in..

Was my dr. who mentioned melatonin , only with regard to not wanting me on regular dose of benzos. He said nothing of the dose. Was more along the lines of why not just use something like melatonin. Its an exogenous hormone and not really more a "natural" approach than benzos . But there's stigma on the latter n the former is so cheap. Thus far melatonin has made me very hungover the next day. But might just try this 0.3 mg dose..out of desperation
Contracted HCV ~age 12
Diagnosed: September 2016 GT2b
F3 by Fibrosure: 0.66
Necroinflammat activity: A3 0.76
================
VL Sep. 12, 2016: 1.44 million/ Log: 6.157
AST:71/ ALT:114   Sept. 1, 2016 Before treatment
==================
4 week after beginning  Epclusa:
Viral Load: UNDETECTED
AST 17/ALT 11
===============
Began Epclusa:  October 22, 2016
End of Treatment [EOT]: January 13. 2017
====================
EOT+4 Weeks: UNDETECTED
====================
SVR 12 April14-HCV Not Detected

Offline dragonslayer

  • Member
  • Posts: 873
Re: Melatonin and Liver Fibrosis
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 11:25:48 pm »
Its an exogenous hormone and not really more a "natural" approach than benzos . But there's stigma on the latter n the former is so cheap. Thus far melatonin has made me very hungover the next day. But might just try this 0.3 mg dose..out of desperation

I think it is definitely a 'more natural' approach than benzos.. your body doesnt produce benzos, and you cant get addicted to tiny supplements of melatonin..  lol... With melatonin, especially in these tiny doses,  if your natural production of melatonin isnt doing the job, then maybe  this will..  .Its like folks who are hypothyroid ... Our bodies arent making enough thyroid hormone, so we have to supplement with a little more to get us to the right level...   
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 07:57:31 am by dragonslayer »
Paul

DX 2008
Started Harvoni 11/26/14 for 8 wks
Completed 8 wks Harvoni 01/20/15
EOT RNA Quant result:  Detected 29
7.5 wk post tx: Detected < LLOQ(12)
11 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR12
24 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR24; AST 26; ALT 22; ALP 73
48 wk post tx: UNDETECTED SVR48; AST 18; ALT 18; ALP 70
GT 1a
vl 2.4mil
2008 bpx: Stage&Grade 0
2013 bpx: Stage&Grade: 0-1
IL28B: TT
likely infected early '70s

 


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